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I take from your post that you do not believe God is in control or that he has a plan. I`m not trying to put words in your mouth,I`m just saying that seems to be the reasoning I get from your sarcasm.
The bible says every knee will bow and tongue confess so I have to believe that it is true. So any..mmmm..individual that says that, is just saying what God already said. Also, just because someone like me believes God will be victorious over satan, doesn`t mean that I do not believe in hell. The bible says there is a hell so I must believe it. I have stated many times that people will be cast into outer darkness and suffer in torment. So I do believe that people such as these imposters will suffer God`s wrath in the coming age because the bible says so. Satan is the god of this world because God has allowed it. So if God is the most powerful force and there is none greater, anything that is happening or has happened is because he willed it or allows it..would you not agree? Maybe there are some who believe that God is not greater than all and that he doesn`t have a plan and things are just happening and noone knows,why,when,,where,or how things are going to turn out. I think he is the alpha and the omega and he knows all. You or I may not know the plan or understand it but if God is supreme and there is suffering, deception,hunger,and evil in this world then he must surely know about it and be able to stop it right now if he wanted to. So in my opinion, he has a plan and the bible also says he will eventually make his enemies his foot stool and Restore ALL things. So I believe that,but that doesn`t mean there are not false gospels or false doctrines in the world that deceive. Once again,the bible says there are, so I believe it. These false doctrines and gospels deceive..the bible says they do. So since God allows it, it must be part of his plan but we are still ultamently responsible for our own actions because the bible says we are. Sometimes parents may allow an older child to do something that the parent knows is not the right thing to do. Knowing what the outcome will be and knowing the child will come back as the get older and say thank you for letting me make my mistakes and find out on my own the truth. Often times as parents we can overly protect our children and they never learn. Some things you just have to learn on your own..you have to go to the school of hard knocks so to speak..I`m a lifetime member! That`s how I think it is with God. He allows things for a reason,to ultamently glorify him. But at the same time we are responsible for our actions just like the child that goes to the school of hardknocks.
You have made some very bold statements and accusations! No, I don't believe you have the control of what God has planned.
1. God is already victorious over satan! He accomplished this through the Cross of Jesus Christ.
2. My Hmmmmm was: How can one say they believe in a hell and wrath now and then post somewhere else and say no one will experience God's wrath and eternal damnation? Then state that God would indeed be victorious and save all His creation. ( Posted: Is it by God giving you grace that you are saved.) Read your post again! Remember Judas discussion?
3. Do not include me in your theory! I do know the plan and understand it! Also I have received it through Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior!
4. I am not ashame of my actions, just confronting statements and seeing where one really stands truthfully.
5. No person can judge who will receive the wrath of God, because we do not have that power over another's life and the end of another's life (that includes televangelist).
6. Yes, you will be responsible for your actions and accusations...... You just had the free will of choosing who believes and who goes to eternal damnation or not!
7. Yes, there is false teachings and doctrines and I am responsible to judge that, but we do not know if those individuals will repent or not.... My responsibility also is to pray that the heart will be saved and delivered from such deception not to stand in judgement of their lives.
Last edited by Cyber Munchkin; 11-15-2007 at 07:09 AM..
When God healed on earth, there wasn't a big song and dance and flashy show. There wasn't a lot of passing the hat amongst the crowd.
Jesus did send out the disciples and said not to take a begging bag.
God's servants will be sucessful without the begging for money.
If you have a prayer cloth, prayer ring or trinket -throw it out.
It's worthless to you!
This won't make me friends from the begging crowd.
[quote=curlythecosmo;2003860]You have made some very bold statements and accusations! No, I don't believe you have the control of what God has planned.
1. God is already victorious over satan! He accomplished this through the Cross of Jesus Christ.[quote]
God will not be totally victorious over satan until he makes his enemies his footstool after the second death when death itself is finally defeated. There sure is a lot of sin and suffering going on in this world for satan to have been defeated. People still die everday..that work is of satan ..so no, satan has not been defeated yet. The groundwork has been laid and it is all in God`s timing. That is like being in a war and saying `we have defeated the enemie` but he keeps killing and blowing up people. He is not defeated until he is totally subdued and the sinning and killing stop
2. My Hmmmmm was: How can one say they believe in a hell and wrath now and then post somewhere else and say no one will experience God's wrath and eternal damnation? Then state that God would indeed be victorious and save all His creation. ( Posted: Is it by God giving you grace that you are saved.) Read your post again! Remember Judas discussion?[quote]
Where did I ever say no one will experience Gods wrath? You should go back and read my post again! I actually said the exact opposite. It is true,I do believe God will be victorious over satan. Perhaps your definition of victorious and mine are different. You seem to believe that satan dragging 99% of Gods creation to eternal hellfire and torment is being defeated and God taking 1% make him victorious. I have stated it before and I will say it again because obviously you missed it, I believe in hell and torment. I do not know what that torment is or how it will be administered but I believe it.
3. Do not include me in your theory! I do know the plan and understand it! Also I have received it through Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior![quote]
Sorry,I didn`t know I was including you in anything. I am glad you know Gods plan. I am also happy that you were discerning enough and smart enough to receive it from your own free will. I hope everyone would be as discerning and as smart as you so they too can inherit Gods kingdom.
4. I am not ashame of my actions, just confronting statements and seeing where one really stands truthfully.
5. No person can judge who will receive the wrath of God, because we do not have that power over another's life and the end of another's life (that includes televangelist).
6. Yes, you will be responsible for your actions and accusations...... You just had the free will of choosing who believes and who goes to eternal damnation or not!
Quote:
Phil. 2:13
13for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
7. Yes, there is false teachings and doctrines and I am responsible to judge that, but we do not know if those individuals will repent or not.... My responsibility also is to pray that the heart will be saved and delivered from such deception not to stand in judgement of their lives.
On the one hand you say there is false teachings but you seem to have a problem with anyone speaking out against it??
Sorry you sound so angry but I did not personally accuse anyone. I do believe people who preach a false gospel will feel God`s wrath but again I did not single anyone out personally. You say you have no idea who will receive the wrath of God...well,you say Jesus is your Lord and Savior,if you read his word he tells who will receive the wrath of God. You don`t have to believe him but I do.
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and injustice of those men that detain the truth of God in injustice: because that which is known of God is manifest in them. For God hath manifested it unto them.†– Romans 1:18-19
There are countless other scriptures that talk about Gods wrath.
I singled no one out personally but talked about false teachers and preachers in generally who sell the name of God for personal profit while people are in need all around them. Maybe you see nothing at all that is wrong with that and so you choose not to speak out about things that seem contradictory to your `lord and savior `. I understand,that is your choice. But I will voice my opinion about things that I think are contrary to his word. That is part of what a message board is all about my friend. We give our opinions and just because someone`s opinion may differ from yours does not make that person an accuser. God is ultamently the judge of each individual`s personal soul but we can speak out against certain behavior. I have given verses in my earlier post that says we should use righteous judgement. It seems you disagree because the premise of your whole post seems to be that we should not speak out against false teachings. . Again that is your choice but you seem to take exception because I choose to speak out against teachings that counter what `your lord and savior`says. I pray that you will ask the holy spirit to reveal his truth to you and give you the courage to stand on God`s word and speak out against those who prey on the weak for financial gain in God`s name.
[quote=spm62;2007304][quote=curlythecosmo;2003860]You have made some very bold statements and accusations! No, I don't believe you have the control of what God has planned.
1. God is already victorious over satan! He accomplished this through the Cross of Jesus Christ.[quote]
God will not be totally victorious over satan until he makes his enemies his footstool after the second death when death itself is finally defeated. There sure is a lot of sin and suffering going on in this world for satan to have been defeated. People still die everday..that work is of satan ..so no, satan has not been defeated yet. The groundwork has been laid and it is all in God`s timing. That is like being in a war and saying `we have defeated the enemie` but he keeps killing and blowing up people. He is not defeated until he is totally subdued and the sinning and killing stop
2. My Hmmmmm was: How can one say they believe in a hell and wrath now and then post somewhere else and say no one will experience God's wrath and eternal damnation? Then state that God would indeed be victorious and save all His creation. ( Posted: Is it by God giving you grace that you are saved.) Read your post again! Remember Judas discussion?[quote]
Where did I ever say no one will experience Gods wrath? You should go back and read my post again! I actually said the exact opposite. It is true,I do believe God will be victorious over satan. Perhaps your definition of victorious and mine are different. You seem to believe that satan dragging 99% of Gods creation to eternal hellfire and torment is being defeated and God taking 1% make him victorious. I have stated it before and I will say it again because obviously you missed it, I believe in hell and torment. I do not know what that torment is or how it will be administered but I believe it.
3. Do not include me in your theory! I do know the plan and understand it! Also I have received it through Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior!
Quote:
Sorry,I didn`t know I was including you in anything. I am glad you know Gods plan. I am also happy that you were discerning enough and smart enough to receive it from your own free will. I hope everyone would be as discerning and as smart as you so they too can inherit Gods kingdom.
4. I am not ashame of my actions, just confronting statements and seeing where one really stands truthfully.
5. No person can judge who will receive the wrath of God, because we do not have that power over another's life and the end of another's life (that includes televangelist).
6. Yes, you will be responsible for your actions and accusations...... You just had the free will of choosing who believes and who goes to eternal damnation or not!
On the one hand you say there is false teachings but you seem to have a problem with anyone speaking out against it??
Sorry you sound so angry but I did not personally accuse anyone. I do believe people who preach a false gospel will feel God`s wrath but again I did not single anyone out personally. You say you have no idea who will receive the wrath of God...well,you say Jesus is your Lord and Savior,if you read his word he tells who will receive the wrath of God. You don`t have to believe him but I do.
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and injustice of those men that detain the truth of God in injustice: because that which is known of God is manifest in them. For God hath manifested it unto them.†– Romans 1:18-19
There are countless other scriptures that talk about Gods wrath.
I singled no one out personally but talked about false teachers and preachers in generally who sell the name of God for personal profit while people are in need all around them. Maybe you see nothing at all that is wrong with that and so you choose not to speak out about things that seem contradictory to your `lord and savior `. I understand,that is your choice. But I will voice my opinion about things that I think are contrary to his word. That is part of what a message board is all about my friend. We give our opinions and just because someone`s opinion may differ from yours does not make that person an accuser. God is ultamently the judge of each individual`s personal soul but we can speak out against certain behavior. I have given verses in my earlier post that says we should use righteous judgement. It seems you disagree because the premise of your whole post seems to be that we should not speak out against false teachings. . Again that is your choice but you seem to take exception because I choose to speak out against teachings that counter what `your lord and savior`says. I pray that you will ask the holy spirit to reveal his truth to you and give you the courage to stand on God`s word and speak out against those who prey on the weak for financial gain in God`s name.
Hi My Brothers and Sisters!!
Sounds like you could use a breather "Whew"
Did you get a chance to read my thread on Anger and the Christian?
I'm going to find the thread you're referencing, to see if I can make sense out of it. But for know please......
Let the peace of God; guard your heart and mind in Christ Jesus. We're all supposed to be on one accord. If we are then the world should hear a harmonious sound. Anything other is "Discord" and we all know how awful that sounds.
I posted in the wrong thread by error;
Forgive me if I've violated any TOS
Old Today, 03:19 PM
yhwhshalomjr
Oh The Grace of God.....
Join Date: Aug 2007
894 posts, read 64,423 times
Reputation: 226
Side Bar:
I will go so far as to say, there have been several persons if not millions that have been injured by all of the accusations surrounding the "Televangelist Investigations" . we have all been affected in one way or another; Many are very angry and others have been disappointed and discouraged
at those that are being accused, the accusers, and the Body of Christ, at Christians.
We have to go to the word of God; because He is our refuge" a very present help in the time of trouble. Let's not add further insult to injury by hurting one another with words.
Instead let's pray for one another and all (are victims). I myself have been disappointed in hearing this; But since I don't know the whole story. So with that being said, I can't say that I was not hurt' to find out that someone paid a supposedly $20k for a Commode seat? Yes I need God right now. I need to be ministered to. I'm disappointed at the whole "Shennanigans" LOL; thank God for my Pastor who nourtures us and guides us through times like this until we are mature enough to face these trials alone.
This may or may not be bad example: But here goes, A Scenario:
Supposed a worship leader/ Youth Pastor was found to have been a pedophile, and visiting many websites and were E-mailing children; and secretly molesting some of those that he were supposed to be entrusted with? and the rest of the church was honest, great at everything; wonderful ministry,and services,ministered to the poor and needy; homeless etc. Loving; kind of like the (church of Philadelphia that Paul spoke about.) and someone exposed this one person(leader). Should everyone in the church/ministry go down?( especially since no one knew about this.) Exactly whom would you be angry with. and if you were not then ; what would be your actions towards this great ministry? What should you as a babe in Christ do; What should you as a mature Christian do? What should the ones that are Carnal Christians and straddling the fence do? What do you think the backslider would do? or think. And those that were thinking about giving their heart to the Lord? How would you as a minister/ layperson explain this to those you were witnessing to?
This is a serious question, Ponder this please and give me your honest answer.
[+] Rate this post positively
Last edited by yhwhshalomjr : Today at 03:33 PM.
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You know I sincerely don't understand is when individuals believe and says that one day every knee will bow and confess Jesus is Lord, and that God will save all of His creation! And that they see people totally differently now! Can turn around their thoughts and say, "that people have just become so lame to God's word that they believe anyone with a bible in their hand. But God is ultimately in control and these people will feel His wrath one day!"
Hi there Curlythecosmo, many Christian Universalists do believe that many will experience hell. We don't believe that hell will be eternal. We believe that eventually all will realize their need for a Savior and and we believe that all will be reunited in Jesus Christ one day (Ephesians 1:10), including the questionable televangelists . God bless.
they speak the words. But it is not in their hearts. They will have riches in this world, but not the next. That gate is pretty tight, you know...
Mathhew 7:!3 ″Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matthew 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt...
This drives me crazy too. Not all of them are bad, but some of them definitetly are deceptive. This make me think about the parable of the wheat and the tares in Matthew 13:24. The enemy plants counterfeit wheat in the night and is not detected until the authentic wheat has aready established roots that have mingled with the tares. Jesus tells us not to uproot the counterfeit in order to preserve the authentic. Then, at the harvest (the end), the angels will separate the authentic from the counterfeit and them to be burned.
This gives me peace. I hope it does the same for you.
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Posted this in the wrong thread
You know I sincerely don't understand is when individuals believe and says that one day every knee will bow and confess Jesus is Lord, and that God will save all of His creation! And that they see people totally differently now! Can turn around their thoughts and say, "that people have just become so lame to God's word that they believe anyone with a bible in their hand. But God is ultimately in control and these people will feel His wrath one day!"
. God bless.
!!!!!
