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Old 09-02-2013, 08:19 PM
 
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according to the bible when exactly do people go to heaven or hell, is it after death or is it when Jesus returns? I was raised a Seventh Day Adventist but haven't been to church for years now and I learned it's until Jesus returns so I don't understand why is it that when someone dies people say they are in a better place
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jusnred View Post
according to the bible when exactly do people go to heaven or hell, is it after death or is it when Jesus returns? I was raised a Seventh Day Adventist but haven't been to church for years now and I learned it's until Jesus returns so I don't understand why is it that when someone dies people say they are in a better place
When the believer dies he goes to heaven (Phil. 1:21-23). When the unbeliever dies he goes to the 'torments' side of Hades (Luke 16:22-23) where he remains until the end of the Millennium when he will be resurrected to appear before the great white throne and then send to the lake of fire forever (Revelation 20:11-15).

There are those who will try to justify not believing what Luke 16:19-31 says on the basis that it is a parable. But a parable is a story which explains a spiritual truth. In this case, an after death experience.
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Up above the world so high!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jusnred View Post
according to the bible when exactly do people go to heaven or hell, is it after death or is it when Jesus returns? I was raised a Seventh Day Adventist but haven't been to church for years now and I learned it's until Jesus returns so I don't understand why is it that when someone dies people say they are in a better place
Our souls go to heaven when we die.

After Jesus returns those of us in heaven will be reunited with our bodies that were left here on earth at the time of physical death.



The Bible tells us that when Jesus returns to earth, he will physically raise all those who have died, giving them back the bodies they lost at death.

These will be the same bodies people had in earthly life—but our resurrection bodies will not die and, for the righteous, they will be transformed into a glorified state, freed from suffering and pain, and enabled to do many of the amazing things Jesus could do with his glorified body (cf. 1 Cor. 15:35–44, 1 John 3:2).

The resurrection of the body is an essential Christian doctrine, as the apostle Paul declares: "[i]f the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised. If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished" (1 Cor. 15:13–18)
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:53 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
When the believer dies he goes to heaven (Phil. 1:21-23). When the unbeliever dies he goes to the 'torments' side of Hades (Luke 16:22-23) where he remains until the end of the Millennium when he will be resurrected to appear before the great white throne and then send to the lake of fire forever (Revelation 20:11-15).

There are those who will try to justify not believing what Luke 16:19-31 says on the basis that it is a parable. But a parable is a story which explains a spiritual truth. In this case, an after death experience.
That is confusing. He will be tormented, then removed from torment, then retormented. Is there a difference between the torment side of hades and the lake of fire? At least the person gets a break from the first torment. I am not trying to be condescending , it is just confusing.
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:57 PM
 
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The evidence is NOT on the side of faith-based church system beliefs and policies, but on scientific evidence--and the best evidence says that when a person dies, irrespective of his beliefs (there is a caveat to this) (s)he immediately goes into a very pleasant realm based on his or her level of spiritual development.

That caveat is: the people who experience the most unpleasant (hellish) near-death experiences are fundamentalist christians who have a heavy belief in the terrors of hell. Seems that what they fear in this life is wreaked on them in the next. Those who have no belief in hell (or heaven for that matter) have the most pleasant experiences. All of this is heavily documented by scientists using rigid guidelines to insure that no false data seeped into their studies.

Last edited by thrillobyte; 09-02-2013 at 10:09 PM..
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Old 09-02-2013, 11:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jusnred View Post
according to the bible when exactly do people go to heaven or hell, is it after death or is it when Jesus returns? I was raised a Seventh Day Adventist but haven't been to church for years now and I learned it's until Jesus returns so I don't understand why is it that when someone dies people say they are in a better place
The kingdom of heaven is among you.

Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!

No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the son of man.
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Old 09-02-2013, 11:28 PM
 
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CBN TV - Ian McCormack and The Lazarus Phenomenon

About a former Atheist who experienced a taste Hell but more importantly a wonderful experience in Heaven and now testifies to both.
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Old 09-02-2013, 11:45 PM
 
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Define heaven and hell, as they appear to be two inflectional points of an apparent path for all humanity called life and death?

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Old 09-03-2013, 12:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Torpedos View Post
That is confusing. He will be tormented, then removed from torment, then retormented. Is there a difference between the torment side of hades and the lake of fire? At least the person gets a break from the first torment. I am not trying to be condescending , it is just confusing.
At death the soul has to go somewhere. The believer's soul goes to heaven, while the unbeliever's soul goes to the torments side of Hades. But once the unbeliever has been resurrected after the Millennium he is sent body and soul into the lake of fire which is permanent. Hades is temporary while the lake fire is permanent. That's the difference. I would imagine that conditions are much the same in either place.

It is the same with that particular group of fallen angels that were involved in the Genesis 6 affair with the Nephilim. The Nephilim were the half angelic-half human offspring of a group of fallen angels who mated with human females. Those fallen angels are currently imprisoned in Tartarus which is probably another section of Hades, the lowest part and is reserved for that particular group of fallen angels.
2 Peter 2:4 For if God didn't spare the angels who sinned but threw them down into Tartarus and delivered them to be kept in chains of darkness until judgment;
They will remain in Tartarus until the end of the Millennium when they will be sent into the lake of fire.

The torments side of Hades is where the unbeliever awaits the judgment of the great white throne just as Tartarus is where the imprisoned fallen angels (most fallen angels are still operational on the earth) await their judgment and transfer to the lake of fire.
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Old 09-03-2013, 01:14 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I would imagine that conditions are much the same in either place.
You have one hell of an imagination.
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