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You might notice she has men and priests in her audience listening to her.
And this woman, not the only woman I believe, is a Doctor of the Catholic Church. Her book Interior Castle which I've never read is one of the great spiritual literary classics of the Church.
Doctor of the Church (Latindoctor, teacher, from Latin docere, to teach) is a title given by a variety of Christian churches to individuals whom they recognize as having been of particular importance, particularly regarding their contribution to theology or doctrine.
And then there is that goofball out of Thailand or Singapore who preaches prosperity gospel. I just amazes me that millions of people followed these what I consider frauds.
Joseph Prince. My stepaunt was watching his show on Daystar earlier this year and he made a low blow passing comment about transubstantiation in his sermon as he was reflecting on his selected reading. Something about "eating the lamb raw is deadly"; an allusion to the clean and unclean animals of the Old Testament.
I agree, the shortage of priests is becoming a huge issue.
We have daily mass, four masses on Sunday, and one mass in Saturday. They are all packed and there are only two priests. Luckily, many other priests that teach at the local university visit and we have two brothers in training. But, the personal touch that is famous in evangelical churches is not there. It is very easy to get lost in these huge churches with so many parishioners. Nevertheless, for many Catholics this seems to work just fine.
As a Protestant who converted to the Catholic faith when I married into the Catholic Church, I agree about the lack of a personal touch. The current church I attend is administered by an Order of the Franciscans and although they are good men and Godly men, you can tell they have a really hard time relating to the day to day experiences of their flock, as they don't walk on that path. Most of their homilies usually start with, "there was this parishioner that came to me..." Hardly is there ever, "One time this happened to me...." and usually it is a childhood experience that goes back to a time long before they took up the vestments.
There are people who are book smart and experience smart. I'm sure a first year doctor can name every single step in detail of a heart bypass operation because he has extensively studied every facet of it in medical school, but I wouldn't trust him to actually perform a bypass by himself because remembering theory and procedure is no substitute for the messiness of the operating table where a million things can go wrong and you must anticipate everything. Likewise, priests will be able to quote every scripture and canon of the church addressing any number of human experiences, but this provides little solace when what you really want is a spiritual leader and comforter that can understand through his own experiences of living biblically in a secular world and can provide helpful and useful spiritual guidance. Currently, priests are locked into a lifestyle that provides no current frame of reference to provide that guidance.
Contrary to church doctrine that once vestments are put on by priests, a certain level of infallibility follows, is unrealistic as it denies the natural human condition that we all, saint and sinner, priest and parishioner, must share daily. Celibacy is one facet of that denial of the natural human condition. Sure, there are certainly priests who are attracted to a life of service and do feel that taking the vows of celibacy and poverty allows them to draw closer to God, by freeing them of distractions of a modern secular world and I admire these nuns, priests, and monks who do. It is not an easy life by any measure and it is really where many of the church's good works spring from. This is where I think religious orders within the Catholic Church (Franciscans, Jesuits, et. al.) still have a place. But just as easily, the priest lifestyle also attracts those who are deviant from the natural human condition and wish to avoid it because of psychological or sociological issues they personally face (i.e. the old saying, "escape into the cloth"), finding a sinister outlet to express themselves, hence the sex scandals that have plagued the priesthood.
Having married priests who face the same trials and tribulations as his parishioners not only helps him to understand those he is charged with spiritual care and leadership of, but also provides an opportunity to be an example to which the parishioners can aspire. It is also the recognition and embracing of the fact that if priests were allowed to serve and lead spiritually while living true to Bible in the secular world, that there could be tremendous benefit to not just increasing the membership of the priesthood, but would allow for the evangelization of the Catholic Church to groups put off by its inaccessibility now.
As a Protestant who converted to the Catholic faith when I married into the Catholic Church, I agree about the lack of a personal touch. The current church I attend is administered by an Order of the Franciscans and although they are good men and Godly men, you can tell they have a really hard time relating to the day to day experiences of their flock, as they don't walk on that path. Most of their homilies usually start with, "there was this parishioner that came to me..." Hardly is there ever, "One time this happened to me...." and usually it is a childhood experience that goes back to a time long before they took up the vestments.
There are people who are book smart and experience smart. I'm sure a first year doctor can name every single step in detail of a heart bypass operation because he has extensively studied every facet of it in medical school, but I wouldn't trust him to actually perform a bypass by himself because remembering theory and procedure is no substitute for the messiness of the operating table where a million things can go wrong and you must anticipate everything. Likewise, priests will be able to quote every scripture and canon of the church addressing any number of human experiences, but this provides little solace when what you really want is a spiritual leader and comforter that can understand through his own experiences of living biblically in a secular world and can provide helpful and useful spiritual guidance. Currently, priests are locked into a lifestyle that provides no current frame of reference to provide that guidance.
Contrary to church doctrine that once vestments are put on by priests, a certain level of infallibility follows, is unrealistic as it denies the natural human condition that we all, saint and sinner, priest and parishioner, must share daily. Celibacy is one facet of that denial of the natural human condition. Sure, there are certainly priests who are attracted to a life of service and do feel that taking the vows of celibacy and poverty allows them to draw closer to God, by freeing them of distractions of a modern secular world and I admire these nuns, priests, and monks who do. It is not an easy life by any measure and it is really where many of the church's good works spring from. This is where I think religious orders within the Catholic Church (Franciscans, Jesuits, et. al.) still have a place. But just as easily, the priest lifestyle also attracts those who are deviant from the natural human condition and wish to avoid it because of psychological or sociological issues they personally face (i.e. the old saying, "escape into the cloth"), finding a sinister outlet to express themselves, hence the sex scandals that have plagued the priesthood.
Having married priests who face the same trials and tribulations as his parishioners not only helps him to understand those he is charged with spiritual care and leadership of, but also provides an opportunity to be an example to which the parishioners can aspire. It is also the recognition and embracing of the fact that if priests were allowed to serve and lead spiritually while living true to Bible in the secular world, that there could be tremendous benefit to not just increasing the membership of the priesthood, but would allow for the evangelization of the Catholic Church to groups put off by its inaccessibility now.
Great post!
There is a way for a priest to get married. Start Episcopalian and then transfer to the CC. Happens all the time and these priests are allowed to be married.
As for personal touch: There are simply not enough priests and too many Catholics in large churches.
However, as you probably know, we Catholics don't need that touchy feely sensation as much as other Christians. Just look around the next time you go to mass. When was the last time you saw a very colorful priest?
There is a way for a priest to get married. Start Episcopalian and then transfer to the CC. Happens all the time and these priests are allowed to be married.
As for personal touch: There are simply not enough priests and too many Catholics in large churches.
However, as you probably know, we Catholics don't need that touchy feely sensation as much as other Christians. Just look around the next time you go to mass. When was the last time you saw a very colorful priest?
Yes, its a round about way to become a married Catholic priest, but I am sure it is looked down upon by the church hierarchy as antithetical to current doctrines. I agree, Catholic Churches don't necessarily provide much of a personal touch. This is both due to short staffing and by design from its hierarchical organization. One thing the Catholic Church provides is a consistent message (for example, go to any Roman Catholic Church anywhere in the world and you will not be lost as the structure from the Celebration of the Word to the Holy Eucharist remains the same) and a level of comfort and relief to the downtrodden peoples of the world, but they are not exactly lighting the world on fire in connecting today's switched on, over-stimulated population. Its getting better with its evangelization message and outreach though. Case in point is the efforts of Father Robert Barron and his Word of Fire Ministries which is bringing an accessibility to Catholic doctrine that is able to engage non-Catholics in thought and discernment unlike masses which I found before becoming Catholic to be inaccessible. For Protestant churches, Sunday services are a moment to evangelize and draw more people into your church, and hence, personal and emotional appeals are essential to establishing a level of comfort and inclusion, whereas Masses generally are staid events performed by the numbers and many parishioners accept masses for what they are: obligations of faith.
Sorry, this got a little off topic from the subject of married priests.
There is a way for a priest to get married. Start Episcopalian and then transfer to the CC. Happens all the time and these priests are allowed to be married.
As for personal touch: There are simply not enough priests and too many Catholics in large churches.
However, as you probably know, we Catholics don't need that touchy feely sensation as much as other Christians. Just look around the next time you go to mass. When was the last time you saw a very colorful priest?
I'm sure you're being flip, but isn't that terribly unfair to both the Episcopal Church and the current clergy of the Catholic Church?
Episcopal congregations sponsor seminarians, thereby underwriting their costs. So if you are actually seriously, then you are actually asking candidates to be deceitful and borderline fraudulent. Meanwhile, given that current Catholic priests have been forced to choose, then how is that fair to them?
I'm sure you're being flip, but isn't that terribly unfair to both the Episcopal Church and the current clergy of the Catholic Church?
Episcopal congregations sponsor seminarians, thereby underwriting their costs. So if you are actually seriously, then you are actually asking candidates to be deceitful and borderline fraudulent. Meanwhile, given that current Catholic priests have been forced to choose, then how is that fair to them?
I don't think any priest makes plans to go the Episcopalian route first. However, many move to the Catholic Church because they feel is the real deal. In other words, Episcopalians are light weight Catholics.
As a Protestant who converted to the Catholic faith when I married into the Catholic Church, I agree about the lack of a personal touch. The current church I attend is administered by an Order of the Franciscans and although they are good men and Godly men, you can tell they have a really hard time relating to the day to day experiences of their flock, as they don't walk on that path. Most of their homilies usually start with, "there was this parishioner that came to me..." Hardly is there ever, "One time this happened to me...." and usually it is a childhood experience that goes back to a time long before they took up the vestments.
There are people who are book smart and experience smart. I'm sure a first year doctor can name every single step in detail of a heart bypass operation because he has extensively studied every facet of it in medical school, but I wouldn't trust him to actually perform a bypass by himself because remembering theory and procedure is no substitute for the messiness of the operating table where a million things can go wrong and you must anticipate everything. Likewise, priests will be able to quote every scripture and canon of the church addressing any number of human experiences, but this provides little solace when what you really want is a spiritual leader and comforter that can understand through his own experiences of living biblically in a secular world and can provide helpful and useful spiritual guidance. Currently, priests are locked into a lifestyle that provides no current frame of reference to provide that guidance.
Contrary to church doctrine that once vestments are put on by priests, a certain level of infallibility follows, is unrealistic as it denies the natural human condition that we all, saint and sinner, priest and parishioner, must share daily. Celibacy is one facet of that denial of the natural human condition. Sure, there are certainly priests who are attracted to a life of service and do feel that taking the vows of celibacy and poverty allows them to draw closer to God, by freeing them of distractions of a modern secular world and I admire these nuns, priests, and monks who do. It is not an easy life by any measure and it is really where many of the church's good works spring from. This is where I think religious orders within the Catholic Church (Franciscans, Jesuits, et. al.) still have a place. But just as easily, the priest lifestyle also attracts those who are deviant from the natural human condition and wish to avoid it because of psychological or sociological issues they personally face (i.e. the old saying, "escape into the cloth"), finding a sinister outlet to express themselves, hence the sex scandals that have plagued the priesthood.
Having married priests who face the same trials and tribulations as his parishioners not only helps him to understand those he is charged with spiritual care and leadership of, but also provides an opportunity to be an example to which the parishioners can aspire. It is also the recognition and embracing of the fact that if priests were allowed to serve and lead spiritually while living true to Bible in the secular world, that there could be tremendous benefit to not just increasing the membership of the priesthood, but would allow for the evangelization of the Catholic Church to groups put off by its inaccessibility now.
And what is it about my "day to day" experience in life you think you have such a good grasp on?
I used to have a priest as a spiritual director in inner-city Milwaukee. "My America" has been catastrophic to my experience as a human. Frankly, I think this priest that was my spiritual director and confessor had a better understanding of my "day to day life" than 99% of "normal" Americans that are married. I'm pretty sure he was dealing with single mothers, ex-cons, crackheads, prostitutes, as well as Bob and Lorraine married to each other and discouraged over the drop in their property taxes.
I was raised by parents--married to each other. I used to listen to my parents fight all the time with my father throwing furniture through the house. And car rides with my parents was an interesting encounter, as my father as a Federal agent and full of rage from his childhood and adult life, almost always slammed on the gas pedal chasing men in cars who got to close to the back end of him. And I remember fleeing in the middle of the night with my mother as she told us our father was loading up the rifle to kill us all.
"Normal" people, especially in the United Kingdom, neither believe nor comprehend my life. And I don't even tell them half of it. If they can't believe the 1/10th of it they sure won't be able to believe the other 9/10th of it.
Maybe you think you have some "daily experience" like my friend doing over 30 years in prison for homicide and attempted homicide? He had a wife and newborn baby. But was reared up on the streets with his father pimping his mother. He was a gang member and shot in more than one incident. Last time he was shot--as a grown man--was on a basketball court, and shot at point blank range. The gunman used a 9mm, and he took several shots to the upper body. I forget how many but I think it was like 7 or 9 bullets to his upper body. His brother is in prison too. He's in for homicide as well.
I don't have a wife. Was systematically rejected by women in America as a young man. And you married people aren't any big mystery. You married people think because your wife sits on your face, you pay taxes and work a job, Joe schmoe invites you over for a BBQ and a few drinks, and because one of you married gets tired of your spouse or hearing her pass wind in the middle of the night, you all are some mysterious lot, and you all have figured out "what life is."
I regret that I wasn't born in a different country. Now, hows that for your "life" or "American dream"? In terms of sheer rage boiling inside, potential to commit homicide or mass homicide, I can get as "American" as the best of them.
Published on Feb 12, 2013
Rev. Eric Bergman, a convert to the Catholic Church explains breifly why. Listen to someone who is married and a priest, and the challenge it can pose.
Yes, its a round about way to become a married Catholic priest, but I am sure it is looked down upon by the church hierarchy as antithetical to current doctrines. I agree, Catholic Churches don't necessarily provide much of a personal touch. This is both due to short staffing and by design from its hierarchical organization. One thing the Catholic Church provides is a consistent message (for example, go to any Roman Catholic Church anywhere in the world and you will not be lost as the structure from the Celebration of the Word to the Holy Eucharist remains the same) and a level of comfort and relief to the downtrodden peoples of the world, but they are not exactly lighting the world on fire in connecting today's switched on, over-stimulated population. Its getting better with its evangelization message and outreach though. Case in point is the efforts of Father Robert Barron and his Word of Fire Ministries which is bringing an accessibility to Catholic doctrine that is able to engage non-Catholics in thought and discernment unlike masses which I found before becoming Catholic to be inaccessible. For Protestant churches, Sunday services are a moment to evangelize and draw more people into your church, and hence, personal and emotional appeals are essential to establishing a level of comfort and inclusion, whereas Masses generally are staid events performed by the numbers and many parishioners accept masses for what they are: obligations of faith.
Sorry, this got a little off topic from the subject of married priests.
Some priests can make mass an event to remember. Others put me to sleep.
However, the mass can be quite enjoyable if one pays attention to all the hundreds off nuances and traditions. For example, I always get a kick from the priest washing his hands and then bowing to the altar server. Sometimes they use incense and that makes it different. And sometimes the priest sings during mass with the typical chant.
I have been to mass in many parts of the world and despite differences in language the mass is the same. And the bible reasons are the same throughout the world.
And what is it about my "day to day" experience in life you think you have such a good grasp on?
I apologize for maybe speaking with a too broad of a stroke and I made some assumptions that I shouldn't that may have touched a nerve and sparked your hostile response. It was not my intention to minimize your own "day to day" experience as you responded with some assumptions and minimization of your own. I will not elaborate any further on my own life experiences as it is not productive to the discussion of the topic at hand, but lets just agree that we don't "have each other figured out."
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