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The Prosperity Doctrine is the farthest removed from the Christianity I know, short of human sacrifices.
How many times in the Gospels does Christ preach not to worry about money or material things? Doesn't he ask us to not put our trust in worldly things? Doesn't he say that he who is first shall be last and last shall be first? Or the odds of a rich man entering heaven are on par of a camel going through the eye of a needle?
What's more, what about those who live their faith everyday but do not accumulate wealth? How does the Prosperity Gospel account for them?
And this horrible blasphemy is a lie right out of the pit of Hell.
I agree the the teaching is a lie but since Hell is a place where God sends evil ones so they can no longer have effect on us I must disagree with it's source.
The "prosperity gospel" is an offshoot of the new religion born around the turn of the 20 century.
Are you living on the street or in a homeless shelter? Do you hold out the tin can for pocket change? If the answer is no then you are prospering and it is Christ who prospered you by giving you strength of character and good health to succeed in life. Prosperity is a good word from God but not to be confused with the get rich schemes that some might preach by one offering money to God to get wealth.
I say and God says that prosperity is in keeping with Christ's promise that if you seek the Kingdom of God and His righteousness first then the material things of life that you need and to share with others will be added to you.
Jesus did preach His version of the Good News/Gospel of prosperity of soul and earthly needs being met but He did not promise one would be a millionaire or such but He did say you would prosper and He did not say how long it would take or how much. It is written, "The meek [those yielded/humble to God's will] will inherit the earth." Prosperity is relative as God sees fit and it comes through obedience to His plan and most assuredly that plan includes hard work. Prosperity in the Kingdom is for the Kingdom sake and not for selfish reasons and worldly living. As He said to Abraham, "I give you wealth in order to establish the Kingdom."
The Gospel is more than forgiveness of sin but rather salvation for all the needs of man if one lay hold of it with all the mind, body, soul and spirit. It is written "I make you the head and not the tail." This is Good News for those fallen into sin and poverty.
God wants believers to be prosperous so they can be a blessing to others, not be self indulged.
Why? And by "others" whom do you mean, the pagan, or the rich Muslim in Dubai speeding around town in his luxury German made car? (The wealthy Arabs in the UAE don't seem to like buying American made cars.)
I'm persuaded to believe if God so blesses a man or woman with a $70,000 a year job then God is blessing that person for their own interest, and not the interest of some 13 year old street kid in Rio de Janeiro with HIV turning tricks on the streets of the city with grown men. No home to go to but some dirty concrete that rats run across, or some abandoned building to crawl into at night.
Far be it from me to say what methodologies God does you to reach one or masses of people with material blessings, but it seems to me national governments, states, and cities have a significant role in micro and macro level economics prosperity. Yet... paradoxically... it seems to me that God can salvage and raise up people individually, with material blessings, even as the metaphorical house of cards around them is falling.
I don't buy into the prosperity doctrine as it's generally pitched. I do, however, has this deep seeded sense that I could do everything "right" in the world and still fail or fall on my own effort. Even if that effort bested every man and woman's efforts on the planet. But that if my faith is such that I trust God to grace me with the ability to metaphorically walk on water, then I don't have to put in a drop of effort, I can sit and twiddle my thumbs, and material, financial, professional, and social blessing will appear to fall gently out of the sky. That's the sense I get though. But it's also difficult for me to believe it. I'm like Peter walking on water with doubts seeping quickly into my mind. And I have sense God has withdrawn His grace from me in this respect. For now at least. So, my doubts gain strength and increase in frequency.
There are wealthy drug dealers and wealthy Arab Muslims too. Actually, Singapore is far more prosperous than the City of Milwaukee.
About 95% of the population of Milwaukee identifies as Christian. They may not go to church but they identify as Christian. That's compared to about 18% of Singapore that identifies as Christian, with about 33% (a plurality) of Singapore identifying as Buddhist.
Singapore has it's poor people too. Probably living in relative poverty like they do in the United States.
And I'm happy to see the rest of the world starting to get a piece of the pie. After WWII with European industrial cities bombed, industrial Japan bombed, the United States emerged with a monopoly on exporting finished goods to the world, with all the unscathed industrial cities in the U.S.
With the U.S. being such a geographically massive sized country a lot of the incredibly rich do not live within the big cities. Pushing women into the workforce, attacking organized labor, bringing in cheap labor from illegal and legal Mexicans, and moving many U.S. jobs over to developing nations with inexpensive labor, the really rich in the U.S. were are able to build or maintain their wealthy towns like Lake Forest, Illinois out of the sight of the millions of peons in Chicago, Milwaukee and elsewhere.
The estimated property taxes on that $12 million dollar home:
Quote:
2011 $128,598
Now, we can compare the economic decline of just Black Milwaukee alone, compared to the 1950s and '60s when Milwaukee had the highest percentage of employed black males of any city in the country (higher than blacks in Chicago and NYC too). And they made good wages.
“Milwaukee has a really special history particularly for African Americans,” said Jennifer Epps of the group Wisconsin Citizen Action, which helped organize the strikes. “We had the highest per capita income for black workers in the country, now we have one of the lowest.”
A report from the University of Milwaukee found that in 1970, over 54 percent of black men in the city were employed in factories, more than twice the percentage of whites. But, as Milwaukee’s Sentinel Journal reports, 100,000 jobs in Delco Electronics, Pabst Brewing Company and other factories left the city since 1980. By 2009, under 15 percent of black men held manufacturing these jobs, about equivalent to the percentage as white workers.
Quote:
“Because our grandparents and parents fought for good jobs in the factories, they were well paid,” Epps told me. “But those jobs are not coming back so from retail to fast food, workers are demanding better wages.”
My black grandfather retired from Pabst. He used to drink on the job while operating a forklift. Not uncommon back then. I think--I'm not certain--they used to give employees a case (bottles) of beer with every paycheck.
Manufacturing jobs leaving ain't so bad. Even if they provided middle-class incomes with no need of college, and no massive financial debt in student loans. What was and remains far worse is the decline in the culture. Had I been born in England, France, Lebanon, h_ll... just about anywhere except the worst off countries, my life would have been infinitely better. I could have worked a blue collar job and gotten a wife. Crabs in the bucket mentality would not be the status quo. Just infinitely better. But we play the cards we're dealt. And grasping reality helps.
So, God's prosperity can help by not limiting one's self to the United States nor to its people.
While wages have not kept up in the U.S., and student debt is probably going to crush the nation again like the housing debt did when it caved in, the best thing is to see God and His promised land in other nations and peoples as they emerge.
America was once the greatest, but we are losing ground.
Education is free until the 12th grade and then it costs an arm and a leg to go to college. I like how the Euros deal with this:
They extend free education through college. Or at most have a nominal charge. My daughter's tuition in Boston is 52K a year. You cannot pay for that flipping burgers.
But, there is more: Most college kids are flipping burgers after graduating from college and they have to live at home. Those that move out have room mates to afford the rent. The glory and the prosperity of post WWII is dwindling. I suspect many Europeans live better.
The EU countries invest on average around 1.2 per cent of their GDP in higher education. But this figure masks large differences in performances across the member-states. At the top of the list come
Denmark, Finland and Sweden, each putting close to 1.8 per cent of GDP into higher education. At the other end of the scale are Italy and the Slovak Republic, with 1 per cent or less. The Commission has calculated that to close the spending gap with the US, the EU would need to invest an additional 150
billion euros a year in higher education. The three biggest EU countries – France, Germany and the UK –
appear close to the bottom of the league, spending around 1.1 percent of GDP on their universities. This figure is roughly in line with that of Japan. But it is far behind the performance of key competitors like Australia (1.5 per cent), Canada (2.3 per cent) and the US (2.6 per cent). These funding levels translate into an enormous spending gap per student between the EU and the other large OECD economies. In 2001, the EU-25 spent on average 8,600 euros annually per tertiary student, compared with 20,000 euros in the US. Only five EU countries –Belgium,Denmark, the Netherlands, Austria and Sweden –invested more than 10,000 per student (Sweden heads the league at 14,000).
European countries have to cope with other big handicaps when it comes to funding university education. One is the fact that students can take many years to graduate. This means that although the annual spending per head may be relatively modest, the cumulative cost over the total period of study can be much more substantial. There are also very high drop-out rates in a number of European
countries, which represent a significant waste of public resources.
European universities are seriously under-funded compared with their international peers. One result has been an exodus of academic talent from Europe, both at the professorial level and among undergraduate and postgraduate students. Higher education is rapidly becoming a global activity, which means that talented people can easily move to different institutions around the world.
Many decades of state domination have left most European universities with limited autonomy and poor systems of governance. There is a kind of drab uniformity across the sector: many institutions are struggling to cope with growing numbers of students and inadequate resources, delivering uninspiring teaching in dilapidated buildings.
Too many of Europe’s universities are aiming for the same goals – which they cannot all hope to achieve – and the available resources are spread much too thinly. There are nearly 2,000 universities in the EU, most of which aspire to conduct research and attract funding for it. A high proportion of them award postgraduate degrees. By contrast, out of around 3,300 degree - awarding bodies in the US
(which comprise a broader range of institutions than the European universities), only about 215 award postgraduate degrees. And there are fewer than 100 recognised research -intensive universities in the US. No wonder US institutions dominate the league tables of the world ’s best research universities, given this concentration of resources.
Are you living on the street or in a homeless shelter? Do you hold out the tin can for pocket change? If the answer is no then you are prospering and it is Christ who prospered you by giving you strength of character and good health to succeed in life. Prosperity is a good word from God but not to be confused with the get rich schemes that some might preach by one offering money to God to get wealth.
I say and God says that prosperity is in keeping with Christ's promise that if you seek the Kingdom of God and His righteousness first then the material things of life that you need and to share with others will be added to you.
Jesus did preach His version of the Good News/Gospel of prosperity of soul and earthly needs being met but He did not promise one would be a millionaire or such but He did say you would prosper and He did not say how long it would take or how much. It is written, "The meek [those yielded/humble to God's will] will inherit the earth." Prosperity is relative as God sees fit and it comes through obedience to His plan and most assuredly that plan includes hard work. Prosperity in the Kingdom is for the Kingdom sake and not for selfish reasons and worldly living. As He said to Abraham, "I give you wealth in order to establish the Kingdom."
The Gospel is more than forgiveness of sin but rather salvation for all the needs of man if one lay hold of it with all the mind, body, soul and spirit. It is written "I make you the head and not the tail." This is Good News for those fallen into sin and poverty.
I am referring to the "property gospel" as taught on TV and in many churches today. Your trying to change the meaning to something else to deflect the real issue. Don't do that! It's too obvious.
The "property Gospel" say's we should all be rich and never sick and if we are not rich and ever get sick it's because we did not have enough faith so we must repent and give them more money. Do you agree with that teaching or not?
It is interesting that the cost of education is being discussed so much in relation to "property". I am convinced the reason higher education is so expensive in the US is because there is so much free money to pay for it. I am currently enrolled in a class (I can only afford to pay for one at a time and work) in a small community college. I am the only student who is not receiving Pell grants and going for free! Someone mentioned that you can't pay for college flipping burgers but that is not true. Those who flip burgers get lot's of free money for college because of their income. Those that have an issue paying are those who work or their parents work and make it to the middle income level. Free money goes away for them. I don't believe God want's us to go into debt so I will not take out student loans. It may take me longer but I won't be in debt when I finish. I did start college late in life so I work full time and provide for my family and pay my own way through school.
I am referring to the "property gospel" as taught on TV and in many churches today. Your trying to change the meaning to something else to deflect the real issue. Don't do that! It's too obvious.
The "property Gospel" say's we should all be rich and never sick and if we are not rich and ever get sick it's because we did not have enough faith so we must repent and give them more money. Do you agree with that teaching or not?
No I am not deflecting the issue but rather bringing balance to what Godly prosperity means. That is something that has been lost in all this discussion and what you and others failed to correct by not preaching the positive aspect. In all this negative talk, the truth should be said. Prosperity has become a dirty word in association with the message of Christ as a result of those who preach it wrongly but prosperity is not a dirty word and not all those who preach it are off base. It is how you preach it that makes the difference.
So no. I do not agree with all that some say but I do say to "Seek the Kingdom of God first and His righteousness and all these things [what you need] will be added to you." and yes "He healed all who came to Him." So I say come to abide in Christ because "The word of God is health to all your bones". If you want to preach less than that because of the poor examples that seem to testify contrary to that then you have nullified the powerful message of genuine faith and fallen into the error that they have.
Yes, there are times that a genuine saint might be sick or poor but it should not end there but through prayer and the good discipline of seeking God's face, healing of body and renewed prosperity will come. We are in battle and the victory belongs to those who take the Kingdom of God by the force of prayer. The complacent and the unbelieving receive nothing.
I want to set the record straight and present the truth of what Jesus said on the matter. He wants us to prosper and be in good health. I will post what I like so please don't tell me, "Don't do that."
Last edited by garya123; 09-18-2013 at 05:45 AM..
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