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Old 09-30-2013, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Somerset, Kentucky
473 posts, read 616,098 times
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Romans 16:7--Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the Apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

The story of Junia is a sad one. Beginning in the 13th century, her memory was not only diluted, but the fact that she was an “outstanding” female apostle was hidden by medieval copyists who changed her name to the more male-sounding “Junias.” Since the truth has been recovered that Junia was clearly a woman, modern-complementarian translators and scholars now try to strip Junia of the title “apostle,” by concluding that she was merely known by the apostles or favored by the apostles, but could never have been deemed an apostle herself. This is a NEW interpretation. The fact that Paul was commending two apostles was never debated, only whether Junia was female or male, and even that debate did not start until the 13th century. The historical reading of this verse has always been that Junia was both a woman and an apostle. It’s important to note that the early church fathers who conceded to these facts were by no stretch of the imagination “egalitarians.” Many held degrading beliefs about women and their “divinely designated” position in life. But even they could not deny that Paul deemed this woman Junia to be an apostle, and an outstanding one at that.
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Old 09-30-2013, 04:01 PM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,629,841 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheila Renae View Post
Romans 16:7--Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the Apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

The story of Junia is a sad one. Beginning in the 13th century, her memory was not only diluted, but the fact that she was an “outstanding” female apostle was hidden by medieval copyists who changed her name to the more male-sounding “Junias.” Since the truth has been recovered that Junia was clearly a woman, modern-complementarian translators and scholars now try to strip Junia of the title “apostle,” by concluding that she was merely known by the apostles or favored by the apostles, but could never have been deemed an apostle herself. This is a NEW interpretation. The fact that Paul was commending two apostles was never debated, only whether Junia was female or male, and even that debate did not start until the 13th century. The historical reading of this verse has always been that Junia was both a woman and an apostle. It’s important to note that the early church fathers who conceded to these facts were by no stretch of the imagination “egalitarians.” Many held degrading beliefs about women and their “divinely designated” position in life. But even they could not deny that Paul deemed this woman Junia to be an apostle, and an outstanding one at that.
Where are you getting this extra non-Biblical information regarding Junia? How do you know if this person was male or female?
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Old 09-30-2013, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Somerset, Kentucky
473 posts, read 616,098 times
Reputation: 112
Just about anywhere you google it.

Saint Junia the Apostle

I believe the answer is straight-forward: In the earliest generation of Christianity, there was a female Apostle named Junia whom Paul said was prominent among the Apostles before he himself was converted (1). Junia and her co-worker in the faith, Andronicus, were among several women and men greeted by Paul (Romans 16:7): "Greet Andronicus and Junia, my relatives and my fellow prisoners; they are prominent among the apostles and they were in Christ before me." Some scholars have translated her name as male – 'Junias' – but no such masculine name is found in any extant Greek or Latin document of the New Testament era. The feminine, Junia, appears in over 250 Greek or Latin inscriptions in Rome alone. The feminine form for the name was dominant in the writings of the Church Fathers for the first thousand years of Christianity. Only since the Middle Ages, largely due to Luther’s translation, did the view that Junia was a man by the name of ‘Junias’ begin to prevail. Cultural values led to the assumption that the gender had to be masculine because women couldn’t possibly be apostles, which contributed to controversies about women’s ordination, especially in the late 20th and early 21st centuries.
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Old 09-30-2013, 04:27 PM
 
9,770 posts, read 6,729,570 times
Reputation: 2484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheila Renae View Post
Just about anywhere you google it.

Saint Junia the Apostle

I believe the answer is straight-forward: In the earliest generation of Christianity, there was a female Apostle named Junia whom Paul said was prominent among the Apostles before he himself was converted (1). Junia and her co-worker in the faith, Andronicus, were among several women and men greeted by Paul (Romans 16:7): "Greet Andronicus and Junia, my relatives and my fellow prisoners; they are prominent among the apostles and they were in Christ before me." Some scholars have translated her name as male – 'Junias' – but no such masculine name is found in any extant Greek or Latin document of the New Testament era. The feminine, Junia, appears in over 250 Greek or Latin inscriptions in Rome alone. The feminine form for the name was dominant in the writings of the Church Fathers for the first thousand years of Christianity. Only since the Middle Ages, largely due to Luther’s translation, did the view that Junia was a man by the name of ‘Junias’ begin to prevail. Cultural values led to the assumption that the gender had to be masculine because women couldn’t possibly be apostles, which contributed to controversies about women’s ordination, especially in the late 20th and early 21st centuries.
Great post!


You may also be interested in Ruth:


The Holy Bible - Ruth - A Faithful Woman - YouTube
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Old 09-30-2013, 04:31 PM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,629,841 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheila Renae View Post
Just about anywhere you google it.

Saint Junia the Apostle

I believe the answer is straight-forward: In the earliest generation of Christianity, there was a female Apostle named Junia whom Paul said was prominent among the Apostles before he himself was converted (1). Junia and her co-worker in the faith, Andronicus, were among several women and men greeted by Paul (Romans 16:7): "Greet Andronicus and Junia, my relatives and my fellow prisoners; they are prominent among the apostles and they were in Christ before me." Some scholars have translated her name as male – 'Junias' – but no such masculine name is found in any extant Greek or Latin document of the New Testament era. The feminine, Junia, appears in over 250 Greek or Latin inscriptions in Rome alone. The feminine form for the name was dominant in the writings of the Church Fathers for the first thousand years of Christianity. Only since the Middle Ages, largely due to Luther’s translation, did the view that Junia was a man by the name of ‘Junias’ begin to prevail. Cultural values led to the assumption that the gender had to be masculine because women couldn’t possibly be apostles, which contributed to controversies about women’s ordination, especially in the late 20th and early 21st centuries.
Why do you believe Google is a good source of information?
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Old 09-30-2013, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Somerset, Kentucky
473 posts, read 616,098 times
Reputation: 112
The info started with Romans 16:7, then you search for reference material on the internet, libraries, etc.
I'm also interested in the 9 prophetesses of the Bible and the deaconess Phebe.

Yeshua Bless You
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Old 09-30-2013, 04:39 PM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,629,841 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheila Renae View Post
The info started with Romans 16:7, then you search for reference material on the internet, libraries, etc.
I'm also interested in the 9 prophetesses of the Bible and the deaconess Phebe.

Yeshua Bless You
The Bible doesn't mention what gender Junia is. It very possibly was a woman, but we really don't know. My question was why you'd blindly accept a source you find through Google?
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Old 09-30-2013, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,265 posts, read 7,654,495 times
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Possibly because the name is written in the feminine form?
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Old 09-30-2013, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Somerset, Kentucky
473 posts, read 616,098 times
Reputation: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
The Bible doesn't mention what gender Junia is. It very possibly was a woman, but we really don't know. My question was why you'd blindly accept a source you find through Google?
The sex of Junia isn't really an argument anywhere on the internet. Study sources that know the history of names and the interpretations of them. Search scholars that study Bible names. Search history for origins. Try Professor Bauckam, Dr. Frank Stagg, Christian theologians, etc. I search. If the Bible mentions something, it's our duty to seek and find the truth or we miss much.

Yeshua Bless You
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Old 09-30-2013, 04:58 PM
Status: "Smacking fundies." (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,810 posts, read 13,417,575 times
Reputation: 11675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Why do you believe Google is a good source of information?
To an increasing number of people, Google is the new bible - IMO, for good reason.

However, the bible-reader and Google-surfer must both have the ability to separate the wheat from the chaff - or the truth will be difficult to glean.
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