U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 10-02-2013, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
8,036 posts, read 4,199,828 times
Reputation: 3039

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Opinionated View Post
There is no evidence that for the first 300 years after Christís death, those claiming to be Christians used the cross in worship. In the fourth century, however, pagan Emperor Constantine became a convert to apostate Christianity and promoted the cross as its symbol. Whatever Constantineís motives, the cross had nothing to do with Jesus Christ. The cross is, in fact, pagan in origin. The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "The cross is found in both pre-Christian and non-Christian cultures." Various other authorities have linked the cross with nature worship and pagan sex rites.Why, then, was this pagan symbol promoted? Apparently, to make it easier for pagans to accept 'Christianity.' Nevertheless, devotion to any pagan symbol is clearly condemned by the Bible at 2 Corinthians 6:14-18.
As to the first bolded item, actually Constantine did not revere the cross. When he claims to have hears "under this sign you shall conquer" it wasn't the cross as we know it today. It was this:



This cross as the "official" Christian symbol came even later than Constantine.

2.) There is a lot of truth to this. The cross seems to frequently pop up in reference to pagan gods of thunder/lightning. The hammer of Thor is basically the same symbol. The likeness of the Hammer of Thor was supposed to ward off evil spirits/beings and the Hammer of Thor was frequently placed on graveyards, gravestones, etc to ward off evil. The pre-Christian cross also referenced fire-making and the Sun gods. It is not entirely clear, but very likely that the use of the symbol of the cross became a convenient tool to help convert pagans by its use of a familiar religious symbol.

Quote:
And in similarity to your fine analogy, cross lovers might ask themselves, how would you feel if one of your dearest friends was executed on the basis of false charges? Would you make a replica of the sword gun or some other instrument of execution to wear around your neck? Would you cherish it proudly, or would you rather see it totally destroyed?
The same thing tends to happen with the Bible. The Cross and the Bible tend to get turned into idols. If you revere the cross as a Christian symbol, I say more power to you. But the above puts into very clear terms why you should not belittle anyone for refusing to revere the symbol of the cross.

I tend to feel the same as the quoted comment above. As I love Jesus Christ dearly, I don't feel it appropriate to parade the tool used to torture my dear savior and friend to death around everywhere. I respect, and respectfully disagree with those that do wish to revere the cross. Each to their own I suppose.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-02-2013, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,331 times
Reputation: 42
Before Chi Rho there was <IXOYE>< or <>< the fish.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2013, 06:44 PM
 
545 posts, read 382,813 times
Reputation: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
::Sigh:: Waste of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
As to the first bolded item, actually Constantine did not revere the cross. When he claims to have hears "under this sign you shall conquer" it wasn't the cross as we know it today. It was this:



This cross as the "official" Christian symbol came even later than Constantine.

2.) There is a lot of truth to this. The cross seems to frequently pop up in reference to pagan gods of thunder/lightning. The hammer of Thor is basically the same symbol. The likeness of the Hammer of Thor was supposed to ward off evil spirits/beings and the Hammer of Thor was frequently placed on graveyards, gravestones, etc to ward off evil. The pre-Christian cross also referenced fire-making and the Sun gods. It is not entirely clear, but very likely that the use of the symbol of the cross became a convenient tool to help convert pagans by its use of a familiar religious symbol.


The same thing tends to happen with the Bible. The Cross and the Bible tend to get turned into idols. If you revere the cross as a Christian symbol, I say more power to you. But the above puts into very clear terms why you should not belittle anyone for refusing to revere the symbol of the cross.

I tend to feel the same as the quoted comment above. As I love Jesus Christ dearly, I don't feel it appropriate to parade the tool used to torture my dear savior and friend to death around everywhere. I respect, and respectfully disagree with those that do wish to revere the cross. Each to their own I suppose.

People here were replying to the OP explaining the devotion and meaning for an honorable and holy reference to the symbol in the Cross. There are many devotions.

People do not parade the cross around as you say and it is part of the life of Christ, Sorrowful, Joyful and Glorious all mystery's . If someone does , so what, they are likely newbies or making a statement they feel comfortable with and its a peace theme with a confidence in the individual and obedience.

Man learns by example..what do people think Christianity all about, lovy dovy and we are all so gleeful and on a fairy tale of jolly how do yu do's ? A prophet can tell us that in 5 minutes.

Here is my input which along with your thinking and Mystic's is ignored in this topic, all I can do is defend the thinking which is being ridiculed. This all including Mystics indirect accusations of calling and accusing people who associate the devotion..with savage and ignorant ancients, and when asked , presents a circular argument talking about the vitality of sperm.

interfering with the association many Christians have in recognizing the Cross, including ...

*when a Christian Bless's self before prayer or a huge event.
.....................
People are made incomplete within themselves. We are built somewhat incomplete. People therefore long for things, its very natural because as individuals it is rewarding to feel as solid contributors to the community and species.

A devotion manifests a spiritual longing where meaning in the divine realities will open up connections with the soul.

A reference of great honor and reverence for the symbol in the cross and what it represents would be considered a devotion for its content in all the understandings which are known.

The honor will add to and protect the soul.

It was in obedience to the Father that Jesus went to the cross, he was not forced. Believers as well are not forced and bear with acceptance the sufferings God sends including saying prayers for peace of mind in things we cannot change. Prayers another devotion , grace before meals for example.
............................

People Bless themselves in the sign of the cross so if there is a problem please explain. ( the associational with the Christian person who blesses themself with savage ignorant ancients or anything defeatist is illogical.

Last edited by macpherson; 10-02-2013 at 08:03 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2013, 09:45 PM
 
21,829 posts, read 16,682,806 times
Reputation: 8661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The use of Bible verses to help in answering your question is not a knee-jerk reaction. The accusation that no thought or consideration was given is also not true. You asked why a cross represents Christianity. I therefore told you in post #2 what the cross represents . That cross you have a problem with is the means by which God made salvation possible for man and a reality for anyone who places his faith in Christ.

The judgment of man's sins took place on the Cross when Jesus bore our sins in His own body and paid the penalty for them. Having taken the punishment for mans sins which the justice of God required, Jesus then dismissed His spirit from His body and died physically. He rose again on the third day. Jesus' death and resurrection are both a part of the gospel message. Without the Cross there would have been no resurrection. Because of Jesus' death on the Cross, the Cross which was an instrument death comes to represent salvation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu View Post
The OP seems to have the correct idea, one not disproven by the above quotation or the remainder, which I have not quoted.

The sacrifice of the cross without the Resurrection would have been meaningless. A dead "saviour" is not possible. Dead prophets are simply dead prophets, not saviours. The Resurrection seals the validity and acceptance of the sacrifice.
As I stated in post #39, Jesus' death and resurrection are both a part of the gospel message. Without the Cross there would have been no resurrection. Jesus had to pay for the sins of the world in order to make salvation possible. And He had to die before He could be resurrected.

As Paul stated in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4;
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2013, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
8,036 posts, read 4,199,828 times
Reputation: 3039
@macpherson @Mike555

My entire point is simple: If the symbol of the cross works for you, fine. And if using it bothers somebody else but they respect your use of the cross, you should be fine with that. Maybe it works fine as a focal point for Christ's sacrifice. That doesn't mean it isn't going to seem like it's celebrating Christ's torture and murder to other people.

Where is it written that we must revere the symbol of the cross? Where is it written that we mustn't?

The answer to both questions is the same. It isn't written anywhere. That makes it a personal choice. The use of the cross a tradition. It's not a law.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-03-2013, 12:03 AM
 
Location: Illinois
4,754 posts, read 4,325,010 times
Reputation: 12914
I see y'all have gotten a little off-topic over here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-03-2013, 12:45 AM
 
545 posts, read 382,813 times
Reputation: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
@macpherson @Mike555

My entire point is simple: If the symbol of the cross works for you, fine. And if using it bothers somebody else but they respect your use of the cross, you should be fine with that. Maybe it works fine as a focal point for Christ's sacrifice. That doesn't mean it isn't going to seem like it's celebrating Christ's torture and murder to other people.

Where is it written that we must revere the symbol of the cross? Where is it written that we mustn't?

The answer to both questions is the same. It isn't written anywhere. That makes it a personal choice. The use of the cross a tradition. It's not a law.
Christians for centuries have acknowledged Good Friday and have readings & Church service's where the figure on the Cross is covered. That is what happens in a Catholic Church. It is a long service and people who don't get at mass each sunday often go, it is usually very crowded.

Satan is denounced and a general absolution is granted . Many commercial shops and government buildings close in many countries, this is in honor of the Cross.

Speaking for myself I am trying to explain a perspective in a topic . Its not anyones position to judge or involve themselves with other peoples idea's in different things although wanted to say a suggestion that it is strange, by using the wording celebrate the torture and death, wouldn't be accurate.

Last edited by macpherson; 10-03-2013 at 01:13 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-03-2013, 06:51 AM
 
21,829 posts, read 16,682,806 times
Reputation: 8661
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
@macpherson @Mike555

My entire point is simple: If the symbol of the cross works for you, fine. And if using it bothers somebody else but they respect your use of the cross, you should be fine with that. Maybe it works fine as a focal point for Christ's sacrifice. That doesn't mean it isn't going to seem like it's celebrating Christ's torture and murder to other people.

Where is it written that we must revere the symbol of the cross? Where is it written that we mustn't?

The answer to both questions is the same. It isn't written anywhere. That makes it a personal choice. The use of the cross a tradition. It's not a law.
You are creating a false issue. The OP simply asked why the Cross is representative of Christianity and I simply answered the question.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-03-2013, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,331 times
Reputation: 42
There are better, and even more appropriate symbols of the purpose of the Christ. I agree with the that focusing on the Morbidity can become a bit much. And people can go so far as to idolize the Cross. UNKNOWINGLY, and for all the right reasons, but none the less, the cross can become more of a focus than the Christ was.

This is evident when ALL a person knows of the faith is WE SIN AND PLEASE SAVE MY BUTT! When that Fascist dictator of a God is promoted, and people scared into "being saved" the cross and Jesus blood becomes tantamount.

But the lifestyle Christ discussed AND IN FACT ENABLED us is ignored. That was the much larger point of Christ on Earth.

This is evident, in part by the early church's posture. They were known for taking care of the people, even the people not of their faith. It's one of the things that kept Roman legislates and governors from interpreting the anti Christian laws more harshly than they had to. Paul taught to remember to do the charity work in nearly, (if not every), letter he wrote.

That Church was known as The Way. And by all appearances the Eph 4:11-17 verses seem to be how the early church was ran. The letter of Clement to Corinth 1 Clement, seems to support that.

It was later the cross was made the focus point. And in the melodrama, The Way was forsaken, or forgotten, and the blood became all that was spoken of.

Now, you have people running FROM GOD/JUDGEMENT, not TO GOD/LOVE. The picture would be something like this...

You stand in an open flat field. From the point you stand there are 360 directions you can go. (Think compass).

You stand where every person does when they are told they live a sinful life and will pay with eternal torment. From here they are told they must escape sin.

There are 360 random directions they can take when they flee sin.

Only one of them leads to God. The path is narrow... and all that.

Rather than teaching them the path TO GOD with that as the lesson, we have let the message be turned into, You stand in a hot spot RUN AWAY RUN AWAY like a corny monte python skit.

The earliest symbol I know of that was used as the cross is used today was the Ikthys.

<>< <IXOYE><

The letters inside, in Greek are Ikthys and means fish. Thus the <><

I is for Jesus name.
X is for His title
O is for GOD
Y is for Son
E is for Savior.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-03-2013, 08:48 AM
 
9,765 posts, read 6,726,032 times
Reputation: 2484
I suspect that the rejection of the cross is just another way for some Protestants to differentiate themselves from Catholicism.


Really? Who cares?

Does God care?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top