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Old 10-04-2013, 02:22 AM
 
21,916 posts, read 16,721,895 times
Reputation: 8732

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
Every Church age believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. But the indwelling of the Spirit is a different ministry then the filling of the Spirit. No believer is commanded to be indwelt by the Sprit, but the believer is commanded to be filled with the Spirit (Eph. 5:18).<<<<<<

another example.

You don't even acknowledge what I said and why. You just ignore it, pretend it doesn't exist and try to ram an opposing view down my throat.

You aren't worth trying to talk to if this is how it's going to be every time.

ROMANS 8:9 says if the SPIRIT INDWELLS YOU, then you are not in the flesh.

Do you still give into temptations of the flesh???? THen you are still living in the flesh/sinful nature. THEN according to PAUL, whom you assumed to become his editor in the last post, you are NOT indwelled by the Spirit.

Paul contradicts you, and you abuse eph 5:18.

I present romans 8:9 simplified, but with the exact, clear and concise message it was written with.
I answered your question concerning what I meant by the spiritual life. And no, Paul does not contradict me. Nor do I abuse Ephesians 5:8.
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Old 10-04-2013, 02:41 AM
 
21,916 posts, read 16,721,895 times
Reputation: 8732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
I gotta tell ya, I love being wrong and "declared legalistic" by someone that doesn't even understand what I've said. It's a uniquely "Christian" event.

Ok, if I'm wrong, then the Bible is wrong. All I did was paraphrase the Bible.

YOU are implying I say works save you. That's a lie. OR it's an error you've been corrected on more than once and should no longer be an error.

Read slowly please... seriously....
If you don't have works you aren't saved. THAT IS NOT SAYING works save you, nor that you earn a ticket to heaven.

You are saved by grace, through faith, not works so no man can boast.<<< eph 2:8-9
If you have faith, you will have works. James 1 and 2 you can find which verses, seems you need to review those chapters anyway.

You were saved to do works. Eph 2:10 is one of SEVERAL vss that say this.

If you do not have works, then that is proof positive you do not have faith. Again, james 1 and 2.

If you do not have faith, how the heck are you getting grace?

Now, to be more blunt, and/or corroborate with a THIRD NT author, go to
1 John 4:16-18

If you don't LOVE right, you aren't in Him and He's not in you. <<<< THAT PERSON<<<<<< is hell bound (assuming you buy into the hell concept.)

LOVING RIGHT will result in works, by the definition, context, and meaning of the word AGAPAO. NOT THE CLICHE'd parroted definition of the word, the usage, and meaning of the word.

ANd yet, another NT figure, some dude named JESUS repeatedly showed that works were a part of a complete Christian. HE expected them. HE saves us for them. If we refuse to do them, you can't claim HIM as lord. That would be like saying you honor your marriage as you lay in a brothel.
When you say that if you don't have works you aren't saved, you are simply trying to shove works into the picture though the back door. It's typical of Lordship salvation legalism.

The believer should have works. That doesn't mean that he necessarily will. As I told you already, the believer who is constantly out of fellowship can only produce dead works which will be burned up at the judgment seat of Christ. Yet he himself is saved.

James reference to dead faith does not mean a non-existent faith. It refers to a non-productive faith in terms of the believers spiritual life. It has nothing to do with his eternal salvation.

Loving right has nothing to do with salvation. You do not understand what abiding in Christ is. It is not a reference to the believer's permanent position in Christ, but refers to the believer's moment by moment rapport with Christ. Abiding in Christ is simply another way of saying to be in fellowship with God. When you sin you get out of fellowship. When you name the sin as per 1 John 1:9 fellowship is restored. The believer's salvation is never in jeopardy. When the believer abides in Christ, Christ abides in the believer. This is different than the believer's permanent position in Christ and Christ's permanent indwelling in the believer.

Whether you like it or not, you promote legalism and do not understand grace.
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Old 10-04-2013, 03:10 AM
 
21,916 posts, read 16,721,895 times
Reputation: 8732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
Quote:
How works factor in.
You should identify the paraphrases if not ask before you tell me I'm wrong.

You are saved by grace through faith, not works so no man can boast.
If you have faith, you will have works. (not claiming you can force faith by doing works.)
If you don't have works, you won't have faith.
If you don't have faith, you don't have grace.
Without grace you aren't saved, amen?


On the contrary. The believer out of fellowship can only produce dead works which will be burned up at the judgment seat of Christ while the believer himself is saved. (1 Cor. 3:12-15) The believer who never names his sins as per 1 John 1:9 remains out of fellowship and under the control of his old sin nature. But he is still saved. He simply has a non-productive spiritual life. (Dead faith as James put it.) <<<<<<
==================
"on the contrary", means you refuse James teaching, and Paul's teaching. Ok. I didn't realize you had that authority to over ride their teaching. Those were verses from either one or the other. YOU know better than them, is what your comment implies. At least in your own mind. Because your words and application of scripture contradict those vss I paraphrased, and several others.

A believer out of fellowship is not yet mature. He is still sinning, and needs more darkness to be washed away. You aren't in fellowship until the darkness is washed away and the LIGHT is all that is left, then you are walking in the light AS HE DOES. No less, not one bit less bright a light than HIM. (Eph 4.)
All believers no matter how mature, get out of fellowship. Every believer sins no matter how spiritually mature he becomes. And when he sins, he gets out of fellowship.

No, I do not refuse James or Paul's teachings. I simply understand what they are teaching.

Quote:
Fellowship has nothing to do with the works.
BUT the first verse you quote, says that works play a part...
1Cr 3:14
If any manís work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
1 Cor. 3:12-15 is talking about eternal rewards at the judgment seat of Christ. Only the believer who is in fellowship can produce works of 'gold, silver, and precious stones' which will be rewardable at the judgment seat.



Quote:
You are saved to do works. ARE YOU SAYING THOSE ARE INHERENTLY DEAD WORKS IF YOU TRY TO DO THEM?
Any works done in the energy of the flesh, instead of in the filling of the Spirit are dead works (Hebrews 6:1) and will be burned up at the judgment seat of Christ.

Quote:
If you do NOT try to do them, you are spitting in God's face. THAT WAS WHAT YOU WERE MADE TO DO. YOU SERVE GOD< NOT HIM SERVING YOU. HE"S NOT a KNIGHT at a drive through window, that gives you what you pray for and gives you fries with it too. YOU SERVE HIM.

YOU ARE HIS INSTRUMENT, or TOOL for righteousness. RIGHTEOUSNESS are ACTS that are righteous. ACTS are works, in EVERY example in the NT.
No one is promoting not having good works. They simply have nothing to do with your eternal salvation.

Quote:
NOWHERE have I said works save you.
Yes you have. You simply try to sneak works in through the back door by saying that if you don't have works then you aren't saved.

Quote:
That is all you are ranting about.

Get it right or don't comment, it's a waste of time. You aren't even arguing with what I'm saying. You quote it, but then you say something that has nothing to do with what you quoted.

BUT I WILL REMEMBER if I'm studying JAMES anytime soon, or PAUL that I need to unignore you, so I can get the UPDATED version, since you decreed that their statements I paraphrased were wrong.
The only one who has done any ranting is you. I have simply pointed out that a number of your beliefs are not Biblical.
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Old 10-04-2013, 03:16 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
1,542 posts, read 1,059,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
When you say that if you don't have works you aren't saved, you are simply trying to shove works into the picture though the back door. It's typical of Lordship salvation legalism.

The believer should have works. That doesn't mean that he necessarily will. As I told you already, the believer who is constantly out of fellowship can only produce dead works which will be burned up at the judgment seat of Christ. Yet he himself is saved.

James reference to dead faith does not mean a non-existent faith. It refers to a non-productive faith in terms of the believers spiritual life. It has nothing to do with his eternal salvation.
WHO
Loving right has nothing to do with salvation. You do not understand what abiding in Christ is. It is not a reference to the believer's permanent position in Christ, but refers to the believer's moment by moment rapport with Christ. Abiding in Christ is simply another way of saying to be in fellowship with God. When you sin you get out of fellowship. When you name the sin as per 1 John 1:9 fellowship is restored. The believer's salvation is never in jeopardy. When the believer abides in Christ, Christ abides in the believer. This is different than the believer's permanent position in Christ and Christ's permanent indwelling in the believer.

Whether you like it or not, you promote legalism and do not understand grace.
I agree with Xian Catalyst. You say that every believer receives the Holy Ghost, but Peter says in Acts 5:32 that God gives the Holy Ghost to those WHO OBEY HIM. 1 John in ch. 2 says that "Whosoever says I know him and keeprth not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him."[COLOR="DarkRed]
Jesus said If ye love me, keep my commandments.[COLOR] He does not say hat His righteousness is imputed to anyone who commits a willful premeditated sin.

Last edited by Robert M Prince; 10-04-2013 at 03:24 AM..
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:57 AM
 
9,880 posts, read 6,747,934 times
Reputation: 2487
Why do the Faith Alone people ignore The Sermon of the Mount?
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Old 10-04-2013, 06:29 AM
Status: "An English arse is stalking me." (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
16,375 posts, read 8,912,733 times
Reputation: 1662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Why do the Faith Alone people ignore The Sermon of the Mount?
What does that have to do with salvation or the cross?
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Illinois
4,754 posts, read 4,331,690 times
Reputation: 12914
I really think that those of you who want to argue the details of salvation should start your own thread.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,567 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I answered your question concerning what I meant by the spiritual life. And no, Paul does not contradict me. Nor do I abuse Ephesians 5:8.
Well, since a declaration we are right is all it takes, I'll just say,


NU UH I AM!
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,567 times
Reputation: 42
Default New thread moonbeam is right!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
All believers no matter how mature, get out of fellowship. Every believer sins no matter how spiritually mature he becomes. And when he sins, he gets out of fellowship.

No, I do not refuse James or Paul's teachings. I simply understand what they are teaching.


[b]1 Cor. 3:12-1.
Look for mike vs Xian And DO take it with the tongue in cheek that it is.

For the record you haven't "shown" me anything, yet. And when you stop in the middle of the chat to proclaim you have, it just shows you ran outta answers.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,574 posts, read 21,729,972 times
Reputation: 18126
Moderator cut: warning

This thread is not about salvation..If you want to continue discussing that then a new thread needs to be started..Next post about it and deletes and infractions will be gifted

Please get back on the subject of the op
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