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Old 10-01-2013, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,677 times
Reputation: 42

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post
1. If you have a problem with the cross of JESUS Christ, than you have a BIG problem as there is no other way for you to be forgiven for your rebellion.


2. The power is in the BLOOD. ...

3. GOD has initiated Salvation through JESUS Christ. We must respond in repentance and trust in Him. JESUS is waiting for ALL to come, but not all will come.. Pride and lack of fear of God look to be the prime reasons why people do not come. God receives the humble repentant heart, but resists the proud.
I'm answering this as if addressed to me. It's not indicated to whom it goes and I was the closest comment that it might pertain to.

1. Who said they had a problem with the Cross? If you read the OP their thought was with how the cross is used, not with the Cross itself nor what it stands for.

Personally I have a huge problem with the Cross when it's used Idolatrously, hanging from your rear view mirror, on a bumptersticker, on a necklace. If someone needs that to proclaim their faith, they have no faith. Faith would be evident in their lives/works.

2. Grossly out of context, and incomplete for this topic.

3. God saved people before Christ. It was just a different plan. THIS way certainly makes it a lot easier.

There is a reason Jesus's Church is built LIKE/AFTER Melchizedeks, and isn't an original church. It had been done before.
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:34 AM
Status: "Waving a sign that reads John 3:16" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
16,391 posts, read 8,921,820 times
Reputation: 1667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
I'm not wrong. For you to conclude so without investigating why I said what I said tells me it doesn't matter what the BIBLE says, your opinion is in concrete.

1 John 4:16-18 Tells me that if you don't LOVE correctly, that you aren't in Him and HE isn't in you. At that point, His death is irrelevant, your altar calls is irrelevant, your baptism is irrelevant. If you fail at love you failed at being His.

God isn't a Fascist. His Son on earth wasn't to stop a THREAT. God doesn't threaten. You paint a picture that puts God and Mussolini on the same page of Wiki under Despots.

If that's all you see...
You obviously don't know Scripture, or more likely have an agenda. The entire text is centered around Christ's redemptive work. I won't waste my time on you.
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:35 AM
 
9,886 posts, read 6,754,693 times
Reputation: 2487
Everyone is a theologian!
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,677 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
You obviously don't know Scripture, or more likely have an agenda. The entire text is centered around Christ's redemptive work. I won't waste my time on you.
You now go to accusing me of things simply because I don't accept your answer. hehehe that would be cute if this wasn't an adult forum.

Don't accuse me of things to avoid addressing the arguments.

You have no answer for the 1John 4 verses, so you chose to attack me instead. And you would have the people believe you are the example of Christianity?

Unfortunately, for the most part you are the example. Shows the Church has a LOT of growing and deprogramming to go through to be on the same page as God.

PS, when you had no answer to the verses or the arguments, that WERE scriptural, it's hard for you to make a serious claim that I'm the one that doesn't know it.
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,677 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Everyone is a theologian!
AND, scripture says it's not what you know, but how you live that is important. So we sit here and not live but argue who knows best. I can smell the irony over the bacon I'm cooking.
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,978 posts, read 22,162,433 times
Reputation: 10732
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBeam33 View Post
Now, before anyone goes ballistic or starts throwing Bible verses at me, please hear me out.

Yes, I understand that the cross is the most widely recognized symbol of Christianity throughout the world. But it is also a symbol of death. As I understand it, crucifixion was fairly common at the time, so it is not even Jesus specific. That is where it is believed he died, NOT a symbol of resurrection.

Think of it this way - If a leader of your religious order were beheaded or hung, would you wear a mini guillotine or noose around your neck? Even if it were all blinged out or sparkly gold, it would just be weird.

I don't understand why the cross rather than the stylized fish - or any other positive symbol - became more representative of Christianity.
Well, you're not the only one who has a problem with the cross. Latter-day Saints (i.e. Mormons) don't use the cross as a symbol of their faith in Christ because we prefer to picture the glorified, resurrected Christ instead of the Christ dying in agony. We're often criticized for this, but the fact is that the cross did not come into use as a symbol of Christianity until several centuries after Christ's death.
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Old 10-01-2013, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,024 posts, read 10,583,738 times
Reputation: 8913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
I'm answering this as if addressed to me. It's not indicated to whom it goes and I was the closest comment that it might pertain to.

1. Who said they had a problem with the Cross? If you read the OP their thought was with how the cross is used, not with the Cross itself nor what it stands for.

Personally I have a huge problem with the Cross when it's used Idolatrously, hanging from your rear view mirror, on a bumptersticker, on a necklace. If someone needs that to proclaim their faith, they have no faith. Faith would be evident in their lives/works.

2. Grossly out of context, and incomplete for this topic.

3. God saved people before Christ. It was just a different plan. THIS way certainly makes it a lot easier.

There is a reason Jesus's Church is built LIKE/AFTER Melchizedeks, and isn't an original church. It had been done before.
I'm interested in your point 3. Of course there were "a people of God" before the earthly incarnation of Jesus, anyone familiar with the bible knows that. What I'd like to know is what do you think was different about, "The plan". By what means were the people of God saved from their sins before Jesus came in the flesh to this earth?

The birth, death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus is not subject to any kind of limitations imposed by time. It's an eternal plan. The saints of the OT were saved in exactly the same way the NT saints are, were and will be. The saints of the OT were saved by faith and trust in the promises of God. God promised a saviour and that saviour was Jesus Christ. What he did for his people was effectual from the beginning to the end of time. If you don't see this, you have missed the main purpose of the entire OT. How does it say that Abraham was considered righteous by God? It was solely that Abraham believed and trusted in God. He was still believing that God would give him descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky while he had Isaac tied up and about to sacrifice him on an alter. When God stayed his hand and told him, "I will provide a lamb" it was much more than a temporal promise. Who then are the heirs to the Promises made by God to Abraham? The bible tells us that it us, The Christians who are the true seed. For we are the heirs not by the flesh but by faith.
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Old 10-01-2013, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Illinois
4,754 posts, read 4,334,466 times
Reputation: 12914
Wow, lots of responses!

For those of you who responded positively or with understanding - thank you!

Those who knee-jerked Bible verses and, I assume, hymn lyrics? - that's the kind of response I was should have expected - no thought, no consideration - just throw stuff at people and tell them they have to believe it. That's a big turn off from religion. And yes, I know you don't care, but people have doubts and questions and thoughtful answers are nice.
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Old 10-01-2013, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Illinois
4,754 posts, read 4,334,466 times
Reputation: 12914
Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
Fancy words don't make you appear educated they are a blindness. Jesus told the disciples He was going to die and the prophecy for this in in Isaiah. and two agreements were made concerning it 5,000 years before Jesus came.
One with Adam and one with Abraham.
If you really care about the truth you will devote real time to knowing the scriptures and Knowing God.
God would prefir to be your teacher . That is what Jesus provided His believers, via the Holy Spirit.
But if all your looking for is excuses, no amount of arguing or facts will make any difference in you.


Is this addressed to me?

I didn't say I was looking for excuses, I was expressing an opinion. Thanks.
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Old 10-01-2013, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Illinois
4,754 posts, read 4,334,466 times
Reputation: 12914
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Wrong! Christianity's foundation is Christ's death on the cross and His resurrection from the grave. Without it, we cannot be saved from God's impending wrath. Everything else Christ taught us begins with the cross. That is why we keep the cross ever before us, and why we observe The Lord's Supper (Communion).

Luke 22:19

“This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”

Wrong! Christianity's foundation is the Resurrection and Jesus's words and actions. Are you saying that nothing he said or did before the crucifixion mattered? His death was one part of the salvation story, and yet the death is focused on as the symbol, rather than his life.
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