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Old 10-01-2013, 01:50 PM
 
Location: USA
15,906 posts, read 8,172,359 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
heheh thank you for asking first.

According to the Jahnian comment above, IF you love, then He is in you and you are in Him.

Without HIM you aren't "saved" (whatever that means...)

So lacking HIM, means you don't have the love right.

Love is the single most indicator of if a person is HIS or not.

Love results in works. Gal 5:6 James 1-2.

All the altar calls, baptisms, milk and cookie suppers you have are pointless if you don't have the love right. Getting the love right is by lifestyle, not by proclamation. "I love you in Christ" that I hear so many say, is about the single most silly thing I hear in the Church. Saying it means nothing. If you DO love them as Christ commanded (Matt 5:43-48) then you wouldn't be talking about it, you'd be showing it.

I'm giving you my break /down exegetics of that verse. None of this is making comments about any particular individual.

Oh no, I get the love part.

It's the "going to hell" part that I'm needing clarification on.
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,962 posts, read 22,122,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
I'm saying Jesus' primary mission was to offer Himself as a sacrifice for our sin. Without His redemptive work, we would have no hope.
I agree that without His redemptive work, we would have no hope. On the other hand, many people were crucified before Jesus was. The miracle was not in His death, but in His resurrection. Thus, it seems to me that our emphasis should be upon what made His death different from anyone else's. Perhaps the symbol of Christianity should be an empty tomb.
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Oh no, I get the love part.

It's the "going to hell" part that I'm needing clarification on.
If he's not in you and you aren't in Him, you aren't heading to whatever "heaven" you believe in. Basically that person has denied HIM, not embraced Him as Lord.

So, I use "hell" in the most common sense of a Xian forum. What "Hell" really is, would be a chat I would bore you to death with.

BUT, the fact you got the love part right, moves you way up the evolutionary ladder in my book!

(that ought to stir up some people...)

Last edited by Xian Catalyst; 10-01-2013 at 02:02 PM.. Reason: add the last three lines.
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:53 PM
 
Location: USA
15,906 posts, read 8,172,359 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
If he's not in you and you aren't in Him, you aren't heading to whatever "heaven" you believe in. Basically that person has denied HIM, not embraced Him as Lord.

So, I use "hell" in the most common sense of a Xian forum. What "Hell" really is, would be a chat I would bore you to death with.

BUT, the fact you got the love part right, moves you way up the evolutionary ladder in my book!

(that ought to stir up some people...)

Well, you might change your tune on that when I tell you I'm no longer a Christian.

Okay, we'll leave the heaven/hell discussion for another thread, perhaps.
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Well, you might change your tune on that when I tell you I'm no longer a Christian.

Okay, we'll leave the heaven/hell discussion for another thread, perhaps.
I wouldn't claim to be Xian either.

But, you hint at an interesting story. I'm game when you are if you would like to share it.

But, no, it doesn't change anything... You are still above the average bear on the list.
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
2,435 posts, read 2,845,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBeam33 View Post
Now, before anyone goes ballistic or starts throwing Bible verses at me, please hear me out... Yes, I understand that the cross is the most widely recognized symbol of Christianity throughout the world. But it is also a symbol of death. As I understand it, crucifixion was fairly common at the time, so it is not even Jesus specific. That is where it is believed he died, NOT a symbol of resurrection.

Think of it this way - If a leader of your religious order were beheaded or hung, would you wear a mini guillotine or noose around your neck? Even if it were all blinged out or sparkly gold, it would just be weird. I don't understand why the cross rather than the stylized fish - or any other positive symbol - became more representative of Christianity.
I agree with you. Here's why: The Greek word generally translated 'cross' is stau·ros′. It basically means "an upright pale or stake." The Companion Bible points out: "[Stau·ros′] never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle…There is nothing in the Greek of the [New Testament] even to imply two pieces of timber."

There is no evidence that for the first 300 years after Christ’s death, those claiming to be Christians used the cross in worship. In the fourth century, however, pagan Emperor Constantine became a convert to apostate Christianity and promoted the cross as its symbol. Whatever Constantine’s motives, the cross had nothing to do with Jesus Christ. The cross is, in fact, pagan in origin. The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "The cross is found in both pre-Christian and non-Christian cultures." Various other authorities have linked the cross with nature worship and pagan sex rites.Why, then, was this pagan symbol promoted? Apparently, to make it easier for pagans to accept 'Christianity.' Nevertheless, devotion to any pagan symbol is clearly condemned by the Bible at 2 Corinthians 6:14-18.

And in similarity to your fine analogy, cross lovers might ask themselves, how would you feel if one of your dearest friends was executed on the basis of false charges? Would you make a replica of the sword gun or some other instrument of execution to wear around your neck? Would you cherish it proudly, or would you rather see it totally destroyed? In ancient Israel, unfaithful Jews wept over the death of the false god Tammuz. But God spoke of what they were doing as being "a detestable thing." According to history, Tammuz was a Babylonian god, and the cross was used as his symbol. From its beginning in the days of Nimrod, Babylon was against Almighty God and an enemy of true worship. Gen. 10:8-10; Jer. 50:29) So by cherishing the cross, yes, a person is honoring a symbol of worship that is opposed to God.
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:30 PM
 
8,104 posts, read 7,074,218 times
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The spirit of the false prophet has always been try to remove the cross to undermine the sacrifices of Lord Jesus in the hearts of people , some churches have even removed the cross from the outside of the churches and inside of the churches which water down the sacrifice of Christ , and then builds a sacrifice of man , which would blaspheme Lord Jesus ...... See the cross of Christ is a symbol of the sacrifice which Jesus endured , and which God gave his only begotten son , which became a judgment of sin , as ALL people are condemned to die with no eternal life , but through Lord Jesus and His righteousness people can be cleansed of sin and convert to Lord Jesus , and receive eternal life for their souls , as Jesus overcame death , and then only His followers will overcome death through Lord Jesus ..... See Jesus was a man but was the only begotten son of God which made Him divine , which Jesus gave His life onto death , which God made His death and acceptable sacrifice , which Jesus would be a intercessor for the transgressors , like the title `Son of man `.........
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:10 PM
 
11,192 posts, read 10,213,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBeam33 View Post
This is the kind of stuff that is not helpful to people who have questions. People are allowed to question, to seek, to wish to understand. Your answer does not help people, it is just meant to make them feel ashamed or embarrassed. I am not ashamed or embarrassed by my questions, because without asking questions, how can one ever find the answer?
How indeed? I completely agree with you. It's normal to seek answers when we don't know. Unfortunately, some aren't willing to help but rather like to show contempt for your questions. Seek places and forums that will welcome your questions, instead of putting you down for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBeam33 View Post

MY foundation is not built on the cross, a symbol of death. MY foundation is built on the everlasting love of God.
As it should be. You don't need symbols to prove your love of God. When the storms in life come, you'll be glad your house is built on the rock and not on sand.

Last edited by HereOnMars; 10-01-2013 at 04:56 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:36 PM
 
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I think some posters never grew up with a religious tradition and perhaps became born again de novo during adulthood. I can see why the cross means nothing to these folks.

However, anyone that is a Christian from birth (in my case Catholic) has the symbol of the cross very well ingrained. The cross becomes part of our cultural heritage. You see the cross and it elicits a response like no other. Some people don't have this sensation because they grew up with no religious symbols.
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:50 PM
Status: "Living rent-free in Mr. Wade’s head" (set 9 hours ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
16,360 posts, read 8,900,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I agree that without His redemptive work, we would have no hope. On the other hand, many people were crucified before Jesus was. The miracle was not in His death, but in His resurrection. Thus, it seems to me that our emphasis should be upon what made His death different from anyone else's. Perhaps the symbol of Christianity should be an empty tomb.
I agree about His resurrection. That's what defeated the second death. According to Scripture though, the blood was the most important element.

"Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin." Hebrews 9:22
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