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I agree about His resurrection. That's what defeated the second death. According to Scripture though, the blood was the most important element.
"Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin." Hebrews 9:22
No . . . it was according to our ignorant and savage ancestors who in their fear of God and their barbarity knew no other way to appease God for sin than to shed the blood of innocent creatures. They had been taught this barbaric ritual from time immemorial. They knew nothing else . . . and it is why we were failing as a species to produce agape love for life.
No . . . it was according to our ignorant and savage ancestors who in their fear of God and their barbarity knew no other way to appease God for sin than to shed the blood of innocent creatures. They had been taught this barbaric ritual from time immemorial. They knew nothing else . . . and it is why we were failing as a species to produce agape love for life.
Now, before anyone goes ballistic or starts throwing Bible verses at me, please hear me out.
Yes, I understand that the cross is the most widely recognized symbol of Christianity throughout the world. But it is also a symbol of death. As I understand it, crucifixion was fairly common at the time, so it is not even Jesus specific. That is where it is believed he died, NOT a symbol of resurrection.
Think of it this way - If a leader of your religious order were beheaded or hung, would you wear a mini guillotine or noose around your neck? Even if it were all blinged out or sparkly gold, it would just be weird.
I don't understand why the cross rather than the stylized fish - or any other positive symbol - became more representative of Christianity.
Trying to discuss religion -- when everyone is a different religion -- or even a different denomination within the same religion -- is totally useless. Most people can't separate belief from facts and truth.
With that said --
You have a valid point, and you made me smile. I've always thought that the symbol of Christianity should be The Risen Christ. But decades ago, a theologian friend (Roman Catholic) gave me a reason why the cross is SUCH a gripping symbol. The vertical beam symbolizes the connection between Heaven and Earth (most people have always assumed that Heaven is 'up there'), and the horizontal beam represents the separation between Heaven and Earth. And, altho' not at all factual, both representations are true at the same time: the connection and the separation. It's very archetypal: human beings are all both connected and separated. In fact, almost everything in our world is dependent (connected) to at least one other thing. As someone so humorously put it: At least one living thing is something else's dinner. :-) And so on and so forth. Even the tides are dependent upon the moon!
Ok, so that's my answer, and I'm sticking to it. And, no, I'm not a Christian.
I think some posters never grew up with a religious tradition and perhaps became born again de novo during adulthood. I can see why the cross means nothing to these folks.
However, anyone that is a Christian from birth (in my case Catholic) has the symbol of the cross very well ingrained. The cross becomes part of our cultural heritage. You see the cross and it elicits a response like no other. Some people don't have this sensation because they grew up with no religious symbols.
I don't know if that's true. I don't get a specifically spiritual response from seeing a cross; however, I do love to see them as works of art--so many different types of crosses have been created over the centuries. I don't necessarily connect physical, man-made objects with God, though. Maybe that's because I've always been Protestant! Venerating objects is discouraged.
I actually get annoyed when I see crosses erected as makeshift memorials along highways where people died in accidents. It seems so phony and tacky, especially when surrounded by soggy stuffed bears and plastic flowers. Or, in the case of one such cross I saw from my commuter train next to the tracks, a cross surrounded by empty liquor bottles. Apparently some local drunk staggered across the tracks at an inopportune moment and somebody thought a cross (and maybe a party) was appropriate there.
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love. I hope the person who said that to you comes to know the love of God, the love that existed before Calvary.
Me too. And they will sooner or later. I can understand the person's words. I think it is just mostly fear than anything. Fear can cause someone to sort of lash out at what they maybe don't quite understand. There's no ill will at all to the person who left that message. I just wanted to respond, but didn't know who to respond to, that's why I posted it here. Hope that is ok and I didn't break any board rules?
Because our ignorant savage ancestors misinterpreted Christ's sacrifice in enduring scourging and crucifixion as an appeasement of a jealous, vengeful, angry War God who could not be satisfied with anything less than blood sacrifice. They elevated the blood sacrifice as the meaning of Christ's act of love . . . instead of recognizing His acquiesence to our ancestors' savagery as an unambiguous example of the true nature of our loving God. He smote no one and He forgave everyone . . . including His torturers and murderers. The worst among those who believe this savagery actually believe God took pleasure in the torture of Christ. It boggles the mind how we humans can distort and corrupt something so unambiguous.
Jesus' sacrifice was not a blood sacrifice as you put it to appease God. His sacrifice is a fulfillment of God's law. The law demands righteousness from bankrupt people, but grace imparts to us His righteousness. Jesus died to give you His righteousness. I hope you will come to believe that.
I don't know if that's true. I don't get a specifically spiritual response from seeing a cross; however, I do love to see them as works of art--so many different types of crosses have been created over the centuries. I don't necessarily connect physical, man-made objects with God, though. Maybe that's because I've always been Protestant! Venerating objects is discouraged.
I actually get annoyed when I see crosses erected as makeshift memorials along highways where people died in accidents. It seems so phony and tacky, especially when surrounded by soggy stuffed bears and plastic flowers. Or, in the case of one such cross I saw from my commuter train next to the tracks, a cross surrounded by empty liquor bottles. Apparently some local drunk staggered across the tracks at an inopportune moment and somebody thought a cross (and maybe a party) was appropriate there.
I guess this type of thing bothers you:
For me the images bring me closer to God. BTW, there is no such thing as idolatry in the catholic Church. These images enhance the human spirit as people worship God. My wife almost always has a cross in her neck.
Same thing with a church architecture. I rather go to a very old church that smells like a church with as many statues and images as possible. There is no idolatry, but when walks in the smell of incense lets you know you are in the house of God.
I think it has to do with how we grew up. The imprints in childhood are powerful.
For me the images bring me closer to God. BTW, there is no such thing as idolatry in the catholic Church. These images enhance the human spirit as people worship God. My wife almost always has a cross in her neck.
Same thing with a church architecture. I rather go to a very old church that smells like a church with as many statues and images as possible. There is no idolatry, but when walks in the smell of incense lets you know you are in the house of God.
I think it has to do with how we grew up. The imprints in childhood are powerful.
I've got news for you: This earth and this universe are the house of God. If you're not seeing that every day and night, you're missing a lot of God.
I think some posters never grew up with a religious tradition and perhaps became born again de novo during adulthood. I can see why the cross means nothing to these folks.
However, anyone that is a Christian from birth (in my case Catholic) has the symbol of the cross very well ingrained. The cross becomes part of our cultural heritage. You see the cross and it elicits a response like no other. Some people don't have this sensation because they grew up with no religious symbols.
I grew up Catholic and the cross symbol and crucifix has ALWAYS bothered me.
I've got news for you: This earth and this universe are the house of God. If you're not seeing that every day and night, you're missing a lot of God.
I agree! :-)
God's creation is equally powerful. A sky with clouds is a magnificent experience. However, the creativity of humans is also admirable.
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Venerating objects is discouraged.
