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I think some posters never grew up with a religious tradition and perhaps became born again de novo during adulthood. I can see why the cross means nothing to these folks.
However, anyone that is a Christian from birth (in my case Catholic) has the symbol of the cross very well ingrained. The cross becomes part of our cultural heritage. You see the cross and it elicits a response like no other. Some people don't have this sensation because they grew up with no religious symbols.
The OP didn't have a problem with what the Cross accomplished, nor did they deny it.
But, for the record, some people need to get past the blood and TO the point. Christ died, so we could be free from the guilt of sin that makes US flee GOD. (Adam)
So we could come HOME (prodigal son) for HIM to fix.
The obsession with death and blood, has become idolatrous for many people to the point that the real message of the Gospel is ignored. For God so Loved the World....... That is the beginning and the end of the Gospel.
No . . . it was according to our ignorant and savage ancestors who in their fear of God and their barbarity knew no other way to appease God for sin than to shed the blood of innocent creatures. They had been taught this barbaric ritual from time immemorial. They knew nothing else . . . and it is why we were failing as a species to produce agape love for life.
WELL, that's certainly spiritual. :-|
Please, tell me now, does your opinion supercede the Bible's words? That will certainly change how I approach a conversation with you.
At the same time I think the Mormon temple in Washington DC is awesome.
And I absolutely love Roman Catholic cathedrals. I attended mass at St. Patrick's in New York City the Sunday before Christmas about three years ago. It was absolutely beautiful.
The obsession with death and blood, has become idolatrous for many people to the point that the real message of the Gospel is ignored. For God so Loved the World....... That is the beginning and the end of the Gospel.
You need to come to mass more often.
The same old tune Jesus died for you in the cross is hardly mentioned. There is no salvation talk left and right. The homily is mostly about what you propose-------trying to be good.
The same old tune Jesus died for you in the cross is hardly mentioned. There is no salvation talk left and right. The homily is mostly about what you propose-------trying to be good.
as a person who loves to debate Rome's teachings, i have to admit i am usually on their side of the arguments. i like most of what you teach there. i believe you are much more correct on many fronts than protestants are. i r a protestant.
in these forums you often find a lot of cat'lik bigotry. it has been wonderfully absent in here. that means you guys all rock!!!
WELL, that's certainly spiritual. :-|
Please, tell me now, does your opinion supercede the Bible's words? That will certainly change how I approach a conversation with you.
The Bible contains God-inspired content . . . but it is neither infallible, inerrant nor God's word . . . Christ is God's Word. The Bible contains interpretations recording the superstitious beliefs and savage concepts of God that our ignorant ancestors believed. If you are a Biblean . . . we have nothing to say to each other. If you do not understand or appreciate Bible scholarship that employs the full extant knowledge available to us . . . you are not equipped to understand my views.
If all these people were so savage and ignorant then how come it is this world that is so ignorant to drop bombs and massacre 100's of thousands of people in this century alone with their braindead science? Do you not keep somewhat up with the news?
number 2
do you think the early Greeks or early Egyptians would be running around talking about cloning dinasoars , people and cows if they thought they could ? We can make a list if you like with the braindead science, how about the accelerater , the dollars, what right does this generation have, who have broken their contract with future generations financially leaving them in the ditch, to build an accelerator and costs, what right The ignorant right, correct ?
what about early scholarly writings, how many have the brain power in this culture to write like that ? Check early greek phil.
and if you have such an issue with the V or the mormons and all the rest how many notes get sent, instead of provoking people on line ? Wheres the program to back up the mission or is it all just words.
if you were not just venting then how come you can't even see the difference between people, congregations and politics ? so I suppose the "people of the country" are of the government with this philosophy is that it? or is this just a run on joke?
Third:
How often do you see people from religions going indirectly after back-yard religionists with no guideline and no organization save what is fancied , I will answer
Never.
As usual . . . I have no clue what bee is in your bonnet. I have never ever suggested our ancestors were not intelligent . . . just ignorant (lacked knowledge) compared to an educated modern civilized 21st century human being. Aristotle was brilliant but he thought women were the result of defective sperm!
As usual . . . I have no clue what bee is in your bonnet. I have never ever suggested our ancestors were not intelligent . . . just ignorant (lacked knowledge) compared to an educated modern civilized 21st century human being. Aristotle was brilliant but he thought women were the result of defective sperm!
I don't want to argue in this forum about savagery and ignorant and all that lingo and deleted my post moments after writing.
Last edited by macpherson; 10-02-2013 at 01:04 AM..
Before there was a Jew, there was Melchizedek's priesthood. This is the priesthood Jesus is fashioned after. Under all three Salvation is by Grace. BLOOD does not force God to forgive anyone, if it does he's not omniscient. It's God's Grace at keeping a covenant He does not have to keep because there is no one that can enforce GOD's behavior but God. Grace is all there is.
Christ's Church is established after Melchizedeks, and is run like Mel's, so I think it's safe to assume that Mel's was by Grace as well. There was no Jew nor Gentile in Mel's church, as there were not yet any Jews.
While I don't disagree with this in general, I would point out, there is nothing but deduction and supposition to that claim. There is less biblical argument for this than there is for Trinity which is hotly debatable.
We agree fully on this point.
God "saved" people before the savior was promised.
Here we go with the accusations.... I'll reply in kind. IF YOU think this, then you have edited the uncomfortable parts out of your bible to make your claim. :| I think it's best to stick to the arguments. Proclaiming you are right, just because you claim you are right, is rather pointless.
By his works.
Which is ONLY known because of his works.
If the Levitical laws did not save the Jews, then God was a liar.
I think your answer is a bit more Augustinian syllogism than scripture. In general I can agree with all you said if we keep it super simplified like this. There's just a lot more to it. And it builds up, Christ, not take away as your reaction seems to think you feel.
Sorry if my comment upset you. You seem quite defensive in the comments.
How in the world could you think that anyone at any time was saved "by the law"? It would be possible if someone was able to keep the law PERFECTLY, but no one ever did or has, excepting our Lord Jesus Christ. WE are in a fashion, "saved by works". The thing is, not our own works which always condemn us but by Christ's works when they are applied to us, by faith in Him and what he did on our behalf.
The fact the law saved no one does not make God in any way a liar. The potential to be saved is there but no one attained it. Just consider the man that as far as I know was the only man in the bible that God called, "A man after my own heart". A great prophet of God and a King over Israel. King David is most certainly saved and from our human perspective he was a far worse sinner than most of us will ever be. He was guilty of murdering a man in order to have that man's wife who he was already committing adultery with. So, do you think David was "saved by the law"? Of course not! He was saved in the exact same way that all the people of God, since the beginning have been saved.Faith and trust in the promises of God. Thats it, there is no other way.
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