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Old 10-04-2013, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
1,999 posts, read 1,990,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
Let's just break this down. Have you ever diagrammed sentences?
| \
---------------------------------
| \

Subject verb predicate....

Let's do something like that except in a paragraph, not sentence.


1 John 4:16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us.

The word for KNOW there is the one used for KNOW YOUR WIFE. IT's an experiential knowledge, not just a logical conclusion. So, it's a different word but you could word it like, we have come to experience and have believed that love.....


God is love,

Err, don't think there is much to break down there... That is the standard, the Canon for Love.

and the one who abides in love abides in God,

Ok, abiding in love, and abiding in God are directly related.
If you did not abide in Love, would you abide in God? You could maybe read it both ways HERE, but corroborating with other verses I think the conclusion is if you don't love you don't abide in God.

and God abides in him.

Same issue as the above part. God abides in you if YOU abide in love.

17 By this, love is perfected with us,

Remember perfect means mature. When that abiding occurs it's mature...

so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment;

for the record, THIS is when you have eternal security, AFTER this maturity process is complete.

because as He is, so also are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love;

Ummm in mature love, there is no fear.

but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment,

This is what you are trying to teach people up there... That fear is good. If you are preaching hell fire and brimstone, sin will send you to hell, which makes GOD a FASCIST GOD, but you are trying to lead people to the Perfect LOVE that has no fear, by forcing them to be focused on their fear.

You lead them FROM God, not to God.


and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

If that perfected/matured love is what eliminates fear, then if you fear you do not have that perfected love.

What does John say that means?

You aren't in Him and He's not in you.

Most people want to YEAH, BUT.... here.
Spare me.
Show me it does not say that before there are any buts on the table.
Xian, I don't totally agree with you that God repeats a message over and over again in Scripture to fear not.

On the other hand God sends repeated messages to fear.

It's like Jesus stating don't judge and judge justly.

I think it comes down to context.

At any rate, I've experienced a good amount of life in the inner-city. I know personally misery company, the one closet to you can betray you, and I've heard a lot of the pimp game streets. Bought into some of it before unfortunately.

All the wicked know a loving God that is sooooooooooooooo "loving," by human conception of the term "love," that God would never send a person to hell for eternity. The same God that allows all this misery on earth. Children abducted and murdered. Deformities and broken hearts of all sorts.

You are not pimp talking me into the idea I need not fear eternal damnation in hell (even if it was only 20 years in hell I still wouldn't want to be in hell--no more than I want to spend 20 years in a U.S. prison which is a lot less suffering than hell).

Fear of hell is a small price to pay. A tiny price for me. If hell is worse than heroin addiction then I need to fear hell more than heroin addiction. And I don't plan on shooting heroin up into my veins, "to have no fear," to see if I can live pretty happy if I get addicted to heroin because God is sooooooooooooooo loving there is no waaaaaaaay he would allow me to suffer due to my own choices to break his laws.

Everyone is responsible for their own souls. Those that want to play around like New Orleans and Louisiana played around with the levees before Katrina then so be it. That is their right by free will.
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
1,999 posts, read 1,990,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
PS 19:9 "The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether." Clean because it is mixed with mercy for the repentant and peace that endues forever, not sadistic.

PS 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do His commandments: His praise endures for ever.

PROV 16:6 "By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil."

PROV 29:25 "The fear of man brings a snare: but whoso puts his trust in the LORD shall be safe." The fear of man has torment but perfect love cast out the irrational fears of man."
The fear of the Lord is not defined by some peoples understanding who think of it as torment or a snare but by what God says about it. His fear is good.

Jesus was well acquainted with the clean fear of the Lord.
IS 11:2-3 "And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make Him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD:"

And if people were honest fear is one of the biggest motivators of everything we do just in this life for this life. Notice the United States has nuclear weapons it's fearful of giving up because with nukes it can deter attacks from nuclear powers. In theory.

Men do or won't do X, Y, Z out of fear of losing their jobs, girlfriends, reputations, money etc.
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Old 10-04-2013, 10:07 PM
 
11,236 posts, read 11,256,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supine View Post
And if people were honest fear is one of the biggest motivators of everything we do just in this life for this life. Notice the United States has nuclear weapons it's fearful of giving up because with nukes it can deter attacks from nuclear powers. In theory.

Men do or won't do X, Y, Z out of fear of losing their jobs, girlfriends, reputations, money etc.
What is this....FETISH....Fundamentalists have for FEAR?
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:19 AM
 
Location: New England
32,222 posts, read 21,097,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
What is this....FETISH....Fundamentalists have for FEAR?
It's the only thing they trust that works. Fear obviously is keeping the peace. There is no alternative to keeping it that they know of. Onward Christian soldiers. To keep the peace you have to be a peace "maker"
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Old 10-05-2013, 09:54 AM
 
Location: USA
15,906 posts, read 8,166,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
What is this....FETISH....Fundamentalists have for FEAR?
Fear is a form of control. Perhaps they don't believe love can transform us, so they believe God needs to control us.
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:09 PM
 
11,236 posts, read 11,256,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
To keep the peace you have to be a peace "maker"
I've heard "to save a soul you have to destroy it."
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:24 PM
Status: "Trump 2020-make liberals cry again" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
16,347 posts, read 8,892,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I've heard "to save a soul you have to destroy it."
I've never heard that, but I'd say, you can't understand the good news without understanding the bad news.
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:45 PM
 
40,045 posts, read 26,725,598 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Fear is a form of control. Perhaps they don't believe love can transform us, so they believe God needs to control us.
As usual your insight is powerful, Pleroo. It may be as you say. In fact . . . I am beginning to think that unless you personally experience the power of God's love . . . you cannot emotionally and intellectually separate from a carnal understanding of this world and all that is in it.

Last edited by MysticPhD; 10-05-2013 at 03:27 PM..
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Old 10-05-2013, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
1,999 posts, read 1,990,215 times
Reputation: 568
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
What is this....FETISH....Fundamentalists have for FEAR?
You can call me whatever you want. I've heard a lot of ridicule throughout my life. Name calling is not going to get me to follow you into worshiping Satan, robbing a bank, hacking up some old lady, shooting heroin up into your arm... or whatever it is you'd want me to follow you along with.

If you have no fear of hell, fine. I do.

I fear hell the way liberals and pregnant women that abort their children fear having kids. I fear hell the way pro-gay people fear the consequences of abandoning their homosexual addictions.

There are many things I fear in life. I wish I were fearless but I'm not. I guess I'm just a flawed human that is not "heroic."




(For people that regard hell as such a mythical place you all sure spend a lot of time arguing over it and protesting about it. If it is fake or spans only a sentence length of 2 days [in our time] then you have nothing to worry about. I guess those of us fearing hell just be the suckers.)
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Old 10-05-2013, 03:32 PM
 
40,045 posts, read 26,725,598 times
Reputation: 6049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supine View Post
You can call me whatever you want. I've heard a lot of ridicule throughout my life. Name calling is not going to get me to follow you into worshiping Satan, robbing a bank, hacking up some old lady, shooting heroin up into your arm... or whatever it is you'd want me to follow you along with.
If you have no fear of hell, fine. I do.
I fear hell the way liberals and pregnant women that abort their children fear having kids. I fear hell the way pro-gay people fear the consequences of abandoning their homosexual addictions.
There are many things I fear in life. I wish I were fearless but I'm not. I guess I'm just a flawed human that is not "heroic."
(For people that regard hell as such a mythical place you all sure spend a lot of time arguing over it and protesting about it. If it is fake or spans only a sentence length of 2 days [in our time] then you have nothing to worry about. I guess those of us fearing hell just be the suckers.)
It is rational to fear negative consequences of our behaviors . . . but they have to be rational consequences. Fear of reaping what you sow in this life is rational. Fear of reaping more than you sow (an infinite eternal torment for this finite life) is an irrational fear. We will reap what we sow . . . but not more than we sow.
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