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Old 10-02-2013, 08:34 PM
 
20,557 posts, read 9,916,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Reading how the ET'ers have ducked and dodged my points in every single post I've made it is clear to me and I will reiterate:

vocal proponents of eternal torment simply will not give up their cherished sacred cow. In some strange, way, to use torpedo's adjective, they get a "creepy" joy out of preaching it. It fulfills some need in their lives to feel they are superior and "elite" to all the unsaved human refuse they sincerely believe are headed to hell. To be able to feel something as powerful as that is greater than experiencing an orgasm. It is the height of spiritual ecstasy. Their posts reek with it.
Fear of rejection has led to false orgasms.
Because the ego is extremely fragile.
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:05 PM
 
6,438 posts, read 9,995,469 times
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I've never had a sadistic streak. I will own up the fact that in the past, when a non-believer has tested my patience by continuing to insult me when I was trying to be kind, I retaliated by telling them they would be damned them to Hell. Which really wasn't Christian of me nor was it accurate. So I apologize and am completely over that. I will say though I think they have more of a sadistic streak than any of us Christians do. Unbelievers and other liberal folks are always talking about Hell and damnation. When they think of God, that's all they think about and accuse Christianity of being. So obviously, they have the more sadistic mind.
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:46 PM
 
11,339 posts, read 11,341,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
I've never had a sadistic streak. I will own up the fact that in the past, when a non-believer has tested my patience by continuing to insult me when I was trying to be kind, I retaliated by telling them they would be damned them to Hell. Which really wasn't Christian of me nor was it accurate. So I apologize and am completely over that. I will say though I think they have more of a sadistic streak than any of us Christians do. Unbelievers and other liberal folks are always talking about Hell and damnation. When they think of God, that's all they think about and accuse Christianity of being. So obviously, they have the more sadistic mind.
allen, you're decent to own up to these feelings. We've all had them, even as a universalist I've had them myself. But then I remind myself that if God can forgive as wretched a sinner as me tens of thousands of times, how much more should I be able to forgive someone who has done me one or two injustices. So I try to beat these feelings down and remind myself of this.

But this was a comparison between Christians of different stripes, not between Christians and non-believers. That's like comparing the maturity of an adult with the maturity of a three-year-old. We are supposed to be the mature ones in this world, as as such come to the three-YO's with a loving attitude, not "Repent or be damned for eternity". That's just a Christian bringing themselves down to the unsaved's level with threats and an unloving attack. It rarely works.

The whole premise of universalism is that a believer can approach an unsaved person from a position of loving kindness and share with him truly good news of the gospel. There's nothing good about the news that if you don't repent and accept Christ (that part is true) you be damned to hell and fire and excruciating pain for all eternity (which is where the universalists and the ET'ers part).
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Old 10-02-2013, 11:18 PM
 
Location: The Big O
590 posts, read 666,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
Unbelievers and other liberal folks are always talking about Hell and damnation. When they think of God, that's all they think about and accuse Christianity of being. So obviously, they have the more sadistic mind.
You have to admit though, that the threat of eternal torture is a pretty big detail. In the past 12 years, I have been told by a variety of Christians that I will be tortured in hell for all eternity, so, yes, it does stick with me. If I am wrong about the existence of the Christian God, then I'm wrong. However, I live a law-abiding life, try to be considerate to all others, and am still one of those guys who uses my turn signals when driving. If I am wrong to not believe in your god among the many various gods throughout history, and consequently determined to deserve to be tortured forever, then that's what will happen. It doesn't feel or seem very just to me.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:17 AM
Status: "Those damned fundamentalists!" (set 12 hours ago)
 
Location: Galaxy’s Edge
16,448 posts, read 8,965,986 times
Reputation: 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
The whole premise of universalism is that a believer can approach an unsaved person from a position of loving kindness and share with him truly good news of the gospel. There's nothing good about the news that if you don't repent and accept Christ (that part is true) you be damned to hell and fire and excruciating pain for all eternity (which is where the universalists and the ET'ers part).
This makes no sense. The good news is not just reserved for universalists. You make it sound like the rest of us have nothing to offer an unsaved person. Then you make it sound like everyone else is touting Hell as good news. Seriously?

This post is inaccurate and disingenuous. The true universalist message is, no matter what you believe or how you live, you eventually will be saved. Universalism has bad news too. You will suffer in Hell for your actions and unbelief, just not forever. Rarely do our universalists friends talk about that.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:28 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,335,640 times
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I've weighed in a lot about the whole ET torment but I'll put it in simple terms for you:

I forgot the exact quote, but Queen Elizabeth I said that if God was going to burn sinners forever in hell, she felt it her duty to imitate his example and burn them on earth. That was her justification.

Making someone suffer forever is not merciful, and shows an extreme degree of hostility. If someone believes God would do that, than they think that this person deserves the worst punishment possible, and it hardens their heart to them. That's the only logical conclusion I've come to. If God does that, he hates them with a merciless, sadistic wrath or he can't control it. That's all there is to it, no two ways about it.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:53 AM
 
Location: New England
32,429 posts, read 21,238,173 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
This makes no sense. The good news is not just reserved for universalists. You make it sound like the rest of us have nothing to offer an unsaved person. Then you make it sound like everyone else is touting Hell as good news. Seriously?

This post is inaccurate and disingenuous. The true universalist message is, no matter what you believe or how you live, you eventually will be saved. Universalism has bad news too. You will suffer in Hell for your actions and unbelief, just not forever. Rarely do our universalists friends talk about that.
You know very well that is not what universalists believe. Nobody escapes the consequences of their own life style, thankfully the consequence is not eternal hell.
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Old 10-03-2013, 04:03 AM
Status: "Those damned fundamentalists!" (set 12 hours ago)
 
Location: Galaxy’s Edge
16,448 posts, read 8,965,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
You know very well that is not what universalists believe. Nobody escapes the consequences of their own life style, thankfully the consequence is not eternal hell.
Isn't that what I said? Some universalists, including some here on the CD, believe in Hell, just not eternal.
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Old 10-03-2013, 04:18 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,462 posts, read 34,581,615 times
Reputation: 10596
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
I've never had a sadistic streak. I will own up the fact that in the past, when a non-believer has tested my patience by continuing to insult me when I was trying to be kind, I retaliated by telling them they would be damned them to Hell. Which really wasn't Christian of me nor was it accurate. So I apologize and am completely over that. I will say though I think they have more of a sadistic streak than any of us Christians do. Unbelievers and other liberal folks are always talking about Hell and damnation. When they think of God, that's all they think about and accuse Christianity of being. So obviously, they have the more sadistic mind.
It sure seems like people who can't stop taking about hell are the ones who claim it does not exist. It looks like they are desperately trying to convince themselves of something
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Old 10-03-2013, 04:26 AM
 
Location: New England
32,429 posts, read 21,238,173 times
Reputation: 2304
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Isn't that what I said? Some universalists, including some here on the CD, believe in Hell, just not eternal.
There is no comparison between the two, and never used as a tool of fear to convert anyone to faith in the grace of God, or to threaten those who reject the doctrine of it. Its funny to how some keep saying universalists speak frequently about hell, yet are here frequently supporting it. Universal Reconciliation is a message to the church of Christ to set it free from the fear it lives in.
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