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Old 10-03-2013, 04:33 AM
Status: "Trump 2020-Making America Great Again" (set 12 hours ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
16,353 posts, read 8,900,570 times
Reputation: 1658

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
There is no comparison between the two, and never used as a tool of fear to convert anyone to faith in the grace of God.
I'm not talking about "tools of fear", but rather beliefs. Do some Universalists believe in a temporary Hell? I know we've debated (not you necessarily) the term "age-during". If that's the case, then the only difference between those Universalists and ETers is length of time.
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Old 10-03-2013, 04:42 AM
 
Location: New England
32,225 posts, read 21,111,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
I'm not talking about "tools of fear", but rather beliefs. Do some Universalists believe in a temporary Hell? I know we've debated (not you necessarily) the term "age-during". If that's the case, then the only difference between those Universalists and ETers is length of time.
I'm sure they do, like I know some Christians who believe in eternal hell that you never hear a word about it from them.
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Old 10-03-2013, 04:51 AM
Status: "Trump 2020-Making America Great Again" (set 12 hours ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
16,353 posts, read 8,900,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I'm sure they do, like I know some Christians who believe in eternal hell that you never hear a word about it from them.
In that case, as I said, the only difference between those Universalists and ETers is length of time.
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Old 10-03-2013, 05:18 AM
 
Location: New England
32,225 posts, read 21,111,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
In that case, as I said, the only difference between those Universalists and ETers is length of time.
Not at all, as far as I am concerned and I don't want to sound offensive to my universal friends,is enduring punishment that resembles anything like that the eternal torment believer believes in, is not of God. I think you will find too that many universalists do no believe it that way, yet going by what you read on this forum, the dispicable doctrine of eternal torment is widely believed.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Data1000 View Post
You have to admit though, that the threat of eternal torture is a pretty big detail. In the past 12 years, I have been told by a variety of Christians that I will be tortured in hell for all eternity, so, yes, it does stick with me. If I am wrong about the existence of the Christian God, then I'm wrong. However, I live a law-abiding life, try to be considerate to all others, and am still one of those guys who uses my turn signals when driving. If I am wrong to not believe in your god among the many various gods throughout history, and consequently determined to deserve to be tortured forever, then that's what will happen. It doesn't feel or seem very just to me.
Forget about the God, live the life. If there is a God and you live the life Christ described, you will meet Him. That's the only way, there is no reasoning or math that will make Him evident or not. Sounds like you would be amenable to the life style at that. It's pretty easy to understand, not as easy to live.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:07 AM
 
40,066 posts, read 26,744,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
This makes no sense. The good news is not just reserved for universalists. You make it sound like the rest of us have nothing to offer an unsaved person. Then you make it sound like everyone else is touting Hell as good news. Seriously?
This post is inaccurate and disingenuous. The true universalist message is, no matter what you believe or how you live, you eventually will be saved. Universalism has bad news too. You will suffer in Hell for your actions and unbelief, just not forever. Rarely do our universalists friends talk about that.
You are conflating salvation (which we have nothing to do with) with sanctification and "reaping what we sow." I repeat for the umpteenth time . . . we have NOTHING to do with our salvation. Christ did that part for us, period. Our sanctification under His grace is what we are responsible for . . . and to the extent we do NOT "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't . . . we WILL "reap whatever we sow" as a consequence (not punishment).
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:59 AM
Status: "Trump 2020-Making America Great Again" (set 12 hours ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
16,353 posts, read 8,900,570 times
Reputation: 1658
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You are conflating salvation (which we have nothing to do with) with sanctification and "reaping what we sow." I repeat for the umpteenth time . . . we have NOTHING to do with our salvation. Christ did that part for us, period. Our sanctification under His grace is what we are responsible for . . . and to the extent we do NOT "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't . . . we WILL "reap whatever we sow" as a consequence (not punishment).
I agree with your post, but it has nothing to do with my earlier response. The good news of Christ can be shared by all Christians.
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You are conflating salvation (which we have nothing to do with) with sanctification and "reaping what we sow." I repeat for the umpteenth time . . . we have NOTHING to do with our salvation. Christ did that part for us, period. Our sanctification under His grace is what we are responsible for . . . and to the extent we do NOT "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't . . . we WILL "reap whatever we sow" as a consequence (not punishment).
I don't think I can agree with that really.... but this isn't the place to start that chat...

perhaps someday we can do the monergism/synergism..... salvation/maturation discussion. Are there private rooms around here?
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
I agree with your post, but it has nothing to do with my earlier response. The good news of Christ can be shared by all Christians.
Why is it only SOME are given the gifts to share them, evangelism, teaching, etc..?
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
1,999 posts, read 1,991,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelee81 View Post
What if the Judge voluntarily suffered unto physical and spiritual death for the guilty but they REFUSED to accept His free pardon by accepting what He's done for them?

God IS love. God is also Holy and Just. He demonstrated this in His life on this earth and ultimately on the cross. So God's love CANNOT be challenged, but yours can if you have not repented.

Jesus came to save sinners from a DEATH sentence which we ALL deserve for our rebellion. There were two thieves on the cross. One saw his need, humbled himself, and came to Jesus... the other mocked and scoffed.

We see nothing different today. One is in paradise... The other opened his eyes in hell. One came to Jesus for forgiveness. And one didn't.. One's sins were judged on that cross.. and one's sins will be brought to Judgment at the Great White Throne to receive the JUST sentence that GOD has ordained for ours (and the angels) rebellion against Him.

We best just all humble ourselves and repent. God resists the proud but gives Grace to the humble.

God is Holy and Just.. There is no bail.. no community service... no purgatory.. only a free pardon through Jesus Christ that must be received prior to us leaving this physical world.

JESUS came to save sinners from ETERNAL DAMNATION.
Well... there is purgatory but there is eternal damnation in hell too.
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