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Old 01-19-2014, 06:53 PM
 
5,147 posts, read 2,535,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Yes, the church will be raptured or caught up into the air and taken into heaven. This is Biblically taught. See post #98.
And the rapture will be before the Tribulation. See bottom of post #107.
"FLESH"[ Physical ] can NOT inherit the kingdom- 1st Corinthians 15 v 50

Not rapture, but resurrection is being discussed at 1st Thess. 4 vs 13-17.

No physical bodies are resurrected to heaven.
Jesus gave up his physical body being resurrected by God back into his pre-human spirit body.
Jesus was ' caught up' [ clouds ] when he ascended to heaven.- Acts 1 v 9
Those 'caught up' ones meet Jesus by having a first or earlier resurrection to heaven - Rev. 20 v 6
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Old 01-19-2014, 07:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WatcherOH View Post
Thank you, Mathew 4:4. I am not familiar enough with Revelation to understand how the 1000 year reign on earth is significant as you have stated. I have studied Revelation at length but mostly in tandem with the mystical writings of Kabbalah. Who ever wrote Revelation was very much aware of the Jewish Kabbalah writings. I don't read much of Zohar or Kabbalah so I am a little deficient. If you could elaborate it would be appreciated.
Thank you for your reply.

What are your thoughts about Revelation 22 v 2 ?__________

God made a promise to father Abraham that all families of Earth will be blessed - Genesis 12 v 3 - and that all nations of Earth will be blessed - Genesis 22 v 18 - blessed with the healing and curing of Earth's nations - Rev. 22 v 2

In Eden there were two special trees. The ' tree of knowledge of good and bad ' that stood for the law of the land.
The other tree was the ' tree of life '. In Revelation [ which is a revealing of Earth's future ] we see the return of the ' tree or trees of life ' once again on Earth.

Jesus, as Messiah and King of God's kingdom for a thousand years over Earth, is the one who will undo all the damage that Satan and Adam brought up mankind - Rev. 21 vs 4,5. At the end of Jesus' millennium-long day of reigning over Earth then Jesus hands back God's kingdom to God according to 1st Corinthians 15 v 24. Messiah's millennial reign will have accomplished God's will, or God's purpose for Earth which is an end to sickness and death on Earth.
- Isaiah 33 v 24; 25 v 8
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Old 01-19-2014, 07:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trumpethim View Post
One more important scripture about the First Resurrection (rapture) and it's timing that has been overlooked is 1 Cor. 15:22-24; "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."
Not rapture but resurrection. Resurrection is Not rapture. 'Flesh' [ physical ] can Not inherit the kingdom- 1st Cor. 15 v 50

The ' they ' that are Christ's ' at his ' coming ' are the ' they ' of Matthew 25 vs 31,32.
The humble living sheep-like people living on Earth at the coming ' time of separation ' they are Not Jesus ' spiritual ' brothers of verse 40. Those ' spiritual ' brothers [ 1st Cor. 15 vs 20,23 ] have a first or earlier resurrection like Jesus before those of Acts 24 v 15 who have a later healthy physical resurrection on Earth during Jesus' 1000-year reign over Earth or over earthly subjects of God's kingdom.- Psalm 72 vs 8,12-14

The humble living sheep on Earth, can remain alive on Earth, and can continue living on Earth right into the start of Jesus' 1000-year reign over Earth. - Isaiah 26 v 20

The signal, so to speak, as a precursor to the great tribulation is mentioned at 1st Thess. 5 vs 2,3 coming by surprise.
In Noah's day the end came hard and swift [ Matthew 24 v 37 ]
Then, Jesus will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill starting with the sheep of Matthew 25.
At the end of Jesus' 1000-year reign over Earth then Jesus at that time hands back God's kingdom to God.-1st Cor.15 v 24
Hands back because Jesus will have accomplished fulfilling God's promise to Abraham at Genesis 12 v 3; 22 v 18; Rev. 22 v 2
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Old 01-19-2014, 07:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
"FLESH"[ Physical ] can NOT inherit the kingdom- 1st Corinthians 15 v 50

Not rapture, but resurrection is being discussed at 1st Thess. 4 vs 13-17.

No physical bodies are resurrected to heaven.
Jesus gave up his physical body being resurrected by God back into his pre-human spirit body.
Jesus was ' caught up' [ clouds ] when he ascended to heaven.- Acts 1 v 9
Those 'caught up' ones meet Jesus by having a first or earlier resurrection to heaven - Rev. 20 v 6
I am reasonably certain that you remember that we have been over this before, but I will go over it again. The resurrection of the church takes place at the rapture of the church. When the church is raptured church age believers will receive their resurrection bodies.

1 Cor. 15:51-54and 1 Thess. 4: 13-17 speak of the rapture/resurrection of the church.
1 Cor. 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53] For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54] But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.


1 Thess. 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17] Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
Now, do you see that phrase 'caught up' in 1 Thess. 4:17? That phrase 'caught up' is a translation of the Greek word harpazó which means to seize or snatch up. The Latin translates harpazó as 'rapturo' from which we get the English word 'rapture.'

HELP'S Word Studies
726 harpázō – properly, seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively – like someone seizing bounty (spoil, a prize); to take by an open display of force (i.e. not covertly or secretly).
Strong's Greek: 726. ?????? (harpazó) -- to seize, catch up, snatch away

1 Thess. 4:17 which you claim does not speak of the rapture is absolutely speaking of the rapture or catching up of the church at which time the resurrection of the church will take place. And the body will be physically resurrected in a state or condition of incorruptibility and immortality. It will not be an immaterial spirit body, but a body of flesh and bone which because it will be a glorified body is called a spiritual body, but it will be very much a physical body.

And the rapture and resurrection of the church will take place before the Tribulation begins. Possibly even a year or two before the Tribulation begins.

Last edited by Mike555; 01-19-2014 at 07:58 PM..
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Old 01-19-2014, 08:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The resurrection of the church takes place at the rapture of the church.
When the church is raptured, church age believers will receive their resurrection bodies.
The poor, meek in Spirit, those that mourn, the merciful, the peacemakers, the pure of heart, those that thirst
for righteousness; and those that are persecuted, will in various ways, receive the blessings of heaven.


"We will be carried to a higher place, even while we yet live."
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Old 01-20-2014, 01:50 PM
Zur
 
949 posts, read 649,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I am reasonably certain that you remember that we have been over this before, but I will go over it again. The resurrection of the church takes place at the rapture of the church. When the church is raptured church age believers will receive their resurrection bodies.

1 Cor. 15:51-54and 1 Thess. 4: 13-17 speak of the rapture/resurrection of the church.
1 Cor. 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53] For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54] But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.


1 Thess. 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17] Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
Now, do you see that phrase 'caught up' in 1 Thess. 4:17? That phrase 'caught up' is a translation of the Greek word harpazó which means to seize or snatch up. The Latin translates harpazó as 'rapturo' from which we get the English word 'rapture.'

HELP'S Word Studies
726 harpázō – properly, seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively – like someone seizing bounty (spoil, a prize); to take by an open display of force (i.e. not covertly or secretly).
Strong's Greek: 726. ?????? (harpazó) -- to seize, catch up, snatch away

1 Thess. 4:17 which you claim does not speak of the rapture is absolutely speaking of the rapture or catching up of the church at which time the resurrection of the church will take place. And the body will be physically resurrected in a state or condition of incorruptibility and immortality. It will not be an immaterial spirit body, but a body of flesh and bone which because it will be a glorified body is called a spiritual body, but it will be very much a physical body.

And the rapture and resurrection of the church will take place before the Tribulation begins. Possibly even a year or two before the Tribulation begins.
You can tell us which church will be resurrected? I agree, most of them are dead, revival is needed and that before the tribulation. Blow the trumpet in Zion, repent, because the Day of the Lord is at hand (Joel 2:1)
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Old 01-20-2014, 02:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zur View Post
You can tell us which church will be resurrected? I agree, most of them are dead, revival is needed and that before the tribulation. Blow the trumpet in Zion, repent, because the Day of the Lord is at hand (Joel 2:1)
The 'Church' refers to every person during the dispensation of the church age who has accepted Christ as Savior and is therefore a part of the body of Christ. It is not an issue of one local assembly of believers versus another assembly of believers. Nor is it an issue of protestant versus Roman Catholic versus _____ fill in the blank.

If you have received Christ as Savior then you are 'church' - a new creation as per 2 Cor. 5:17.
2 Cor. 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
If you have received Christ as Savior then you are a part of the body of Christ. You are a part of the bride of Christ and you will be resurrected at the time of the rapture of the church. It is not merit based just as eternal salvation is not merit based. Every church age believer will be resurrected at the same time. Well, actually, the dead in Christ will be raised first and then those who are alive and remain on the earth will be transformed. But the entire event will take place in the twinkling of an eye (1 Cor. 15:52) which is what? About 1/100th of a second. So . . . at the same time. Every church age believer!!! And this will be prior to the Tribulation.
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Old 01-20-2014, 03:01 PM
 
910 posts, read 1,085,076 times
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If you will experience rapture, why is it said that the meek will experience the earth?
Why did God create man on earth?
Why did Christ promise to come again?
Why did he talk about a physical kingdom as well as a spiritual kingdom?
Why did he pray for the kingdom to manifest on the earth?

On 1000 year reign

Why did he say his reign is everlasting, yet we claim 1000 year reign?
Is 1000 years same as everlasting?
Who is making the mistake? John the Divine, Christ or you?
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Old 01-20-2014, 03:14 PM
 
20,421 posts, read 9,840,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
2 Cor. 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things have passed away; behold, new things have come.
Why are you waiting?
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Old 01-20-2014, 03:24 PM
 
21,903 posts, read 16,711,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
If you will experience rapture, why is it said that the meek will experience the earth?
Why did God create man on earth?
Why did Christ promise to come again?
Why did he talk about a physical kingdom as well as a spiritual kingdom?
Why did he pray for the kingdom to manifest on the earth?

On 1000 year reign

Why did he say his reign is everlasting, yet we claim 1000 year reign?
Is 1000 years same as everlasting?
Who is making the mistake? John the Divine, Christ or you?
The rapture of the church is simply the removal of the church from the earth prior to the beginning of the Tribulation. The Second Advent of Christ takes place at the end of the Tribulation and prior to the beginning of the Millennial kingdom on the earth. Christ's reign during the Millennial kingdom is not the same as His eternal reign along with the Father and the Holy Spirit as the triune God.
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