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Old 03-05-2014, 06:41 AM
 
392 posts, read 291,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
A man of substance!
Thank you for the compliment. I have been around the block and have lived to the beginning of old age. About 13 years ago I went on a quest...``what is truth. Truth is a adherence to reality...it is the base message of Jesus Christ. If you give the story of Christ some careful thought you will through God given logic remove some of the silly stuff. The NT is wonderful but it has many misinterpretations.

For instance feeding the multitude with a few fish and a few loaves of bread was a lesson in sharing. There was no silly magic taking place...Many of those that had gathered had brought a lunch probably kept under their cloaks...When Christ set the example of sharing...Those with food brought it out and passed it around...and as we know there was more than enough for all.

The water into wine magic...also can be explained. God or Christ do not and need not resort to magic. Magic by definition is trickery. There is no such thing. If at the wedding party it was late afternoon and the guests had drank their fill of wine. I would surmise it was very hot and they were thirsty. More wine would have brought about harm at that point not goodness.

Christ had the servants fill wine jugs with cool water..of course the water would have been a bit pink from the residue. Water is the source of all life and is holy. The tell tale comment made once the water was served to the dehydrated revelers...was YOU HAVE SAVED THE BEST TILL LAST....it was an inside joke that scholars never quite understood...They were looking for magic.

I can imagine a guest sipping on what they wanted most and what tasted the best WATER.....One can also imagine the tongue and cheek comment...Drinking and calling blessed water wine.

Now as far as the rapture is concerned - it is for the most part a cowardly bit of selfish wishful thinking. God does not play favorites. He rains on the wicked as well as the good. Those who believe they are better and more godly human beings and they will escape through the rapture - leaving all the BAD people behind are mistaken. Human beings punish and judge other human beings. God is not a punishing God...He would not punish some and reward others. This is a controlling human concept.


The best we can do as death approaches and the evils of nature and time are about to over take our mortal bodies....Is to hope for mercy from the creator...to hope that he or it will be gentle and not frighten us to much. The rapture is the essence of new age Christianity. IT is Christian elitism. In the end rich or poor...powerful or weak - we end up equal near death...God will show grace.....now to my point.

The term GRACE does not mean a smooth and perfect dance. Grace by definition is THE UNDESERVED MERCY OF GOD. If God can grant mercy to even the wicked...then surely we can show grace to all as human beings. The concept of the rapture is a show of lack of grace...that some are rewarded and to hell with the others. Those into the rapture gloat in the idea that only they will be saved and taken away - and the rest are left to suffer. I can not believe that God is cruel...we are mere microbes on this speck of dust called earth...God is not some cruel child burning misbehave ants with a magnifying glass. These are human attributes...God is not cruel or disloyal....People can be.
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Old 03-05-2014, 11:01 AM
 
910 posts, read 1,085,573 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
GINOLJC,

Addressing the OP only.

I agree to a point. the Lord's return is two fold. what do I mean by that?. his return is a Spiritual one FIRST, then a bodily one. on the day of Pentecost he did return in Spirit, and in Power. that is his first of his two fold coming. which he fulfilled according to Matthew 16:28, "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom". he came into his Kingdom in Spirit and Power, which is the Holy Spirit. and you're right the mansion is Spiritual. and the second coming of his two fold return is in Bodily form, so that every eye will see him. supportive scripture, Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen".


and again, I agree, that you're correct in the first return is spiritual, unseen, but the second of the two folds return, as in Rev 1:7 is a seen one, supportive scripture, Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation".


but addressing Isaiah 9:6. I believe it is speaking of our Lord's birth. here's why I say this. this child, this son, is called the "EVERLASTING FATHER", and that's God. and he have the government on his shoulders, and that's God. supportive scripture, Matthew 2:4 "And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel. and the prophet that wrote that was, Micah 5:2 "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. here in this verse, “RULER”, is the Hebrew word, H4910 מָשַׁל mashal, which the KJV can translate as “GOVERNOR”. and now the question, who is the Governor?. Psalms 22:28 "For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations. LORD, all caps, So it is God who is the Governor. and here in Psalms, “GOVERNOR”, is “RULER”, as in Micah 5:2,the Same word. so se can see that the Lord Jesus is God in flesh as Matthew 1:23 states, “God with us.

but if you have something else to the fact, please post it.

thanks
Christ returns just once physically but not to answer the name Jesus (Rev 3: 12). He does not return to Isreal, rather to "a nation that was not called by his name" ... a gentile nation (Isa 65: 1-6). The promise of Christ was to send the Holy Spirit once he exited. He had previously explained that the Holy Spirit was both a Spirit and a Physical being.

In his prior advent, he gave his life for the sin of Adam or of mankind. After completing that assignment, he was glorified by his Father. John 17: 1-6 also Philip 2: 6-8. That glory means the returned Christ is no longer coming to 'die' for our sins, but as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, to rule on earth. He reigns for ever and ever and all will eventually acknowledge his rule.

The returned Christ is already in the world. The world does not know him, except he calls you, you cannot know him. If you read Dan 7:9-13 & Rev chapter 4-Rev chapter 7, it is clear that God, Christ will be on the earth during the 'tribulations" or the last days. The last days started since 1918. The foundation of the kingdom of God on earth was laid on 8/8/58. But like all things Godly, man will not recognize it until it is too late. And there are many precedents:

Noah built an Ark in dry ground and was mocked at
Jesus was born, but the religious leaders rejected him.
They said they were waiting for Elijah to physically descend from heaven.
But they forgot that John the Baptist was the Elijah that was to come
Jesus, the same, yesterday, today and forever.

Today, the Jews do not even believe that Christ had come.
Today Christians are waiting for him to drop from the sky.

The ways of God are not the ways of man. Let him who has ears, hear this message and may God bless his words. Amen.
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Old 03-05-2014, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,541,970 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
Christ returns just once physically but not to answer the name Jesus (Rev 3: 12). He does not return to Isreal, rather to "a nation that was not called by his name" ... a gentile nation (Isa 65: 1-6). The promise of Christ was to send the Holy Spirit once he exited. He had previously explained that the Holy Spirit was both a Spirit and a Physical being.

In his prior advent, he gave his life for the sin of Adam or of mankind. After completing that assignment, he was glorified by his Father. John 17: 1-6 also Philip 2: 6-8. That glory means the returned Christ is no longer coming to 'die' for our sins, but as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, to rule on earth. He reigns for ever and ever and all will eventually acknowledge his rule.

The returned Christ is already in the world. The world does not know him, except he calls you, you cannot know him. If you read Dan 7:9-13 & Rev chapter 4-Rev chapter 7, it is clear that God, Christ will be on the earth during the 'tribulations" or the last days. The last days started since 1918. The foundation of the kingdom of God on earth was laid on 8/8/58. But like all things Godly, man will not recognize it until it is too late. And there are many precedents:

Noah built an Ark in dry ground and was mocked at
Jesus was born, but the religious leaders rejected him.
They said they were waiting for Elijah to physically descend from heaven.
But they forgot that John the Baptist was the Elijah that was to come
Jesus, the same, yesterday, today and forever.

Today, the Jews do not even believe that Christ had come.
Today Christians are waiting for him to drop from the sky.

The ways of God are not the ways of man. Let him who has ears, hear this message and may God bless his words. Amen.


thanks for the reply.
#1. Christ returns just once physically but not to answer the name Jesus (Rev 3: 12).
I'm not sure what you're talking about there. but he is returning physically, but his name???, It's not changing.

#2. The promise of Christ was to send the Holy Spirit once he exited. He had previously explained that the Holy Spirit was both a Spirit and a Physical being.
I'm not sure what you're saying here either. but to take a stab at what you're saying. Jesus the Christ is the Holy Spirit, with a body. Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have". now if this is what you're talking about, ok, I agree. and the Spirit came on Pentecost, and the body returns at his coming.

#3. The returned Christ is already in the world. The world does not know him, except he calls you, you cannot know him. If you read Dan 7:9-13 & Rev chapter 4-Rev chapter 7, it is clear that God, Christ will be on the earth during the 'tribulations" or the last days. The last days started since 1918. The foundation of the kingdom of God on earth was laid on 8/8/58. But like all things Godly, man will not recognize it until it is too late. And there are many precedents:

I believe you are in ERROr here, it is clear that God, Christ will be on the earth during the 'tribulations" or the last days. The last days started since 1918. well I have a problem with that, because tribulation started before 1918. scripture,
Revelation 1:9 "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ". and to be sure that we're in the last days, Hebrews 1:1 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds”. it seem from scripture, that your 1918 date is a bit off.



lets reconcile #3. before we proceed any further.
be blessed
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:20 PM
 
910 posts, read 1,085,573 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101c View Post
thanks for the reply.
#1. Christ returns just once physically but not to answer the name Jesus (Rev 3: 12).
I'm not sure what you're talking about there. but he is returning physically, but his name???, It's not changing.

#2. The promise of Christ was to send the Holy Spirit once he exited. He had previously explained that the Holy Spirit was both a Spirit and a Physical being.
I'm not sure what you're saying here either. but to take a stab at what you're saying. Jesus the Christ is the Holy Spirit, with a body. Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have". now if this is what you're talking about, ok, I agree. and the Spirit came on Pentecost, and the body returns at his coming.

#3. The returned Christ is already in the world. The world does not know him, except he calls you, you cannot know him. If you read Dan 7:9-13 & Rev chapter 4-Rev chapter 7, it is clear that God, Christ will be on the earth during the 'tribulations" or the last days. The last days started since 1918. The foundation of the kingdom of God on earth was laid on 8/8/58. But like all things Godly, man will not recognize it until it is too late. And there are many precedents:

I believe you are in ERROr here, it is clear that God, Christ will be on the earth during the 'tribulations" or the last days. The last days started since 1918. well I have a problem with that, because tribulation started before 1918. scripture,
Revelation 1:9 "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ". and to be sure that we're in the last days, Hebrews 1:1 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds”. it seem from scripture, that your 1918 date is a bit off.



lets reconcile #3. before we proceed any further.
be blessed

101C

I guess I need to start from the begining to get to number 3.

1) Rev 3:12 speaks for itself, so just read that up. And if you believe that he comes with a new name, it means that he must be born on earth, ie His Spirit must be made flesh via the womb of a woman. Like it was before. Rev 12 : 5, therefore confirms why it was not necessary for the disciples to stand steadily gazing into the sky (Acts 1: 10 -12). It was not necessary, he would never descend from the sky, he comes as a human being like me and you, but he is not given the spirit in measure like us humans.

Despite Adam's sin, God never allowed an angel to rule over his kingdom. He still gave authority and kingship to man. That was Paul writing in Heb 1 vs 5

Quote:
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Also see Heb 2

Quote:
5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet
So he will rule the earth as man and be born as confirmed in Rev 12: 5, Is 9:6, and Heb 1:6

Matter of fact, man alone of all God's creation is made in the image of God. Remember, " Let us make man in our own image".

2) What I am saying in 2 is also simple. Jesus made it clear that he had to go before the Holy Spirit comes. Why was that? It was because with him in the world, the next assignment cannot begin. The Holy Spirit is actually God himself. Since Christ sacrificed his blood, God now came to live inside us to help us do things that we could not do. Notice the wonderful advancement humankind have made in all facets of life after Christ exited. Those things were in fact done by man through the inspiration of the Spirit. Now to your point about explaining the duality of the Holy Spiirt, I invite you to read carefully with Faith, John 14

Quote:
5 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
The folks who will know the Comforter are his elects. The rest unbelievers will not know him. The Comforter , who is the Holy Spirit will have ability to dwell with and live inside, the elects. In other words, the Comforter is both physically seen and spiritual. Therefore he has duality of existence. Christ exhibited such duality of existence after his death and resurrection. He was able to 'appear' when doors were locked, heard conversations (Thomas) etc, but again he "denied" being a pure spirit as he had "flesh and bones".

The Comforter shall teach, he shall instruct, he shall hear... signifying a humanly existence as well. God the Father is the Comforter and this truth Christ secretly alluded to in the below verses: John16

Quote:
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.
Pay attention to verse 15, Christ clarifies that the Comforter was actually his Father. If you see him after a little while because he goes to the Father, it means the Father is the one coming. The Comforter is coming to do an even bigger assignment than Christ. To teach man and to show us things which Christ could not/did not show us. Who is that greater teacher than Christ if not the Father? That is why we must realize that Christ cannot come in a vacuum. He must come through his Father who is the owner of the kingdom. You will now understand the parable of the wicked husbandmen: Mathew 21

Quote:
33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 34 and when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. 38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Note the sequence of events between the landowner, who is God and the husbandmen who are the people of the world, the movers and shakers, the "anti-christ" . The Lord of the vineyard must come with all his family including his son and his elects. Those are the ones to rule with Him.

3) At a stretch you are right in saying that the days of the tribulation started shortly after resurrection, because the Spirit was released then. I would not venture that far, because it was a predicted tribulation for the disciples of God, a judgement on Israel for killing the Christ (Roman invasion 70 AD), plus other localized events. When we talk about the tribulation start, we mean the start of profound events that shook the world as a whole. Why is 1918 significant? Firstly end of the first world war which started in 1914.The whole world was affected by the deadly influenza that killed and killed and killed until 1918. That year marked the physical entrance of the Holy Spirit on earth. His coming led to the liberation of Isreal in 1948 (Isa 11:11), leading to the setting up of the temple of God in 1958.

The bible confirms that God will be on earth in the last days first to set up his kingdom (Dan 2:44, MAthew 21: 33-41, Rev 4 up to Rev 7), to handover the kingdom to His Christ and for judgement (Rev 19). If you read Revelation carefully, you will observe that the temple of Jehovah God and His Christ are already set up before the seals are opened and during the tribulations. We are now well into the release of the 6th. I should emphasize that the events in Revelations are not happening chapter by chapter like some of us think.
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
3,671 posts, read 1,541,970 times
Reputation: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
101C

I guess I need to start from the begining to get to number 3.

1) Rev 3:12 speaks for itself, so just read that up. And if you believe that he comes with a new name, it means that he must be born on earth, ie His Spirit must be made flesh via the womb of a woman. Like it was before. Rev 12 : 5, therefore confirms why it was not necessary for the disciples to stand steadily gazing into the sky (Acts 1: 10 -12). It was not necessary, he would never descend from the sky, he comes as a human being like me and you, but he is not given the spirit in measure like us humans.

Despite Adam's sin, God never allowed an angel to rule over his kingdom. He still gave authority and kingship to man. That was Paul writing in Heb 1 vs 5



Also see Heb 2



So he will rule the earth as man and be born as confirmed in Rev 12: 5, Is 9:6, and Heb 1:6

Matter of fact, man alone of all God's creation is made in the image of God. Remember, " Let us make man in our own image".

2) What I am saying in 2 is also simple. Jesus made it clear that he had to go before the Holy Spirit comes. Why was that? It was because with him in the world, the next assignment cannot begin. The Holy Spirit is actually God himself. Since Christ sacrificed his blood, God now came to live inside us to help us do things that we could not do. Notice the wonderful advancement humankind have made in all facets of life after Christ exited. Those things were in fact done by man through the inspiration of the Spirit. Now to your point about explaining the duality of the Holy Spiirt, I invite you to read carefully with Faith, John 14



The folks who will know the Comforter are his elects. The rest unbelievers will not know him. The Comforter , who is the Holy Spirit will have ability to dwell with and live inside, the elects. In other words, the Comforter is both physically seen and spiritual. Therefore he has duality of existence. Christ exhibited such duality of existence after his death and resurrection. He was able to 'appear' when doors were locked, heard conversations (Thomas) etc, but again he "denied" being a pure spirit as he had "flesh and bones".

The Comforter shall teach, he shall instruct, he shall hear... signifying a humanly existence as well. God the Father is the Comforter and this truth Christ secretly alluded to in the below verses: John16



Pay attention to verse 15, Christ clarifies that the Comforter was actually his Father. If you see him after a little while because he goes to the Father, it means the Father is the one coming. The Comforter is coming to do an even bigger assignment than Christ. To teach man and to show us things which Christ could not/did not show us. Who is that greater teacher than Christ if not the Father? That is why we must realize that Christ cannot come in a vacuum. He must come through his Father who is the owner of the kingdom. You will now understand the parable of the wicked husbandmen: Mathew 21



Note the sequence of events between the landowner, who is God and the husbandmen who are the people of the world, the movers and shakers, the "anti-christ" . The Lord of the vineyard must come with all his family including his son and his elects. Those are the ones to rule with Him.

3) At a stretch you are right in saying that the days of the tribulation started shortly after resurrection, because the Spirit was released then. I would not venture that far, because it was a predicted tribulation for the disciples of God, a judgement on Israel for killing the Christ (Roman invasion 70 AD), plus other localized events. When we talk about the tribulation start, we mean the start of profound events that shook the world as a whole. Why is 1918 significant? Firstly end of the first world war which started in 1914.The whole world was affected by the deadly influenza that killed and killed and killed until 1918. That year marked the physical entrance of the Holy Spirit on earth. His coming led to the liberation of Isreal in 1948 (Isa 11:11), leading to the setting up of the temple of God in 1958.

The bible confirms that God will be on earth in the last days first to set up his kingdom (Dan 2:44, MAthew 21: 33-41, Rev 4 up to Rev 7), to handover the kingdom to His Christ and for judgement (Rev 19). If you read Revelation carefully, you will observe that the temple of Jehovah God and His Christ are already set up before the seals are opened and during the tribulations. We are now well into the release of the 6th. I should emphasize that the events in Revelations are not happening chapter by chapter like some of us think.

first off, thanks for the response.

#1. Rev 3:12 speaks for itself, so just read that up. And if you believe that he comes with a new name, it means that he must be born on earth, ie His Spirit must be made flesh via the womb of a woman. Like it was before. Rev 12 : 5, therefore confirms why it was not necessary for the disciples to stand steadily gazing into the sky (Acts 1: 10 -12). It was not necessary, he would never descend from the sky, he comes as a human being like me and you, but he is not given the spirit in measure like us humans.

Rev 3:12 do speak of itself. and his name “JESUS”, was not known at that time, for there was no “J” in the Hebrew language AT THAT TIME. now as then, whenever one have a dominate Language, it rules. and today we have English, Just as in the days of Babylon, that language dominated the land. and Hebrew names was known in that Language. well today, the English language dominates the land, and only Jesus knew this language to come. supportive scripture, Revelation 19:12 " His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself”. that’s the NEW NAME, the one he had then, YESHUA, Hebrew, the new name JESUS, which is his English name to come. which no man at that time knew.


#2. What I am saying in 2 is also simple. Jesus made it clear that he had to go before the Holy Spirit comes. Why was that? It was because with him in the world, the next assignment cannot begin. The Holy Spirit is actually God himself. Since Christ sacrificed his blood, God now came to live inside us to help us do things that we could not do. Notice the wonderful advancement humankind have made in all facets of life after Christ exited. Those things were in fact done by man through the inspiration of the Spirit. Now to your point about explaining the duality of the Holy Spiirt, I invite you to read carefully with Faith, John 14

I’m glad you invited me to John 14. JESUS is the HOLY SPIRIT. he said that he would come to us. John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you”. so how did our Lord Jesus come to us?”, answer, as the Holy Spirit. the Lord Jesus said that he will come, right, listen. John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?”. did you hear what Judas said?. Listen closely, “wilt manifest thyself unto us”. manifest “THYSELF”. the Lord Jesus is going to manifesthimself. he is the Spirit. now the question, how is he going to manifest himself?. answer, the Spiritual gifts. this is the outpouring that the prophet Joel foretold that will happen, and it was realized on the day of Pentecost. and the apostle was speaking in tongues. and these gifts are listed in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11. that’s why I know that a woman can preach, teach, and pastor. this is what I was pointing out in the topic I posted, “Can a woman pastor”. because it’s a gifts. see, Jesus is the Holy Spirit, and he came on Pentecost, in POWER, with these GIFTS. that's how he, (JESUE), will MANIFEST "HIMSELF", as was asked by Judas. listen, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". there is the MANIFESTATION. Jesus the Christ is the HOLY SPIRIT.


#3.The folks who will know the Comforter are his elects. The rest unbelievers will not know him. The Comforter , who is the Holy Spirit will have ability to dwell with and live inside, the elects. In other words, the Comforter is both physically seen and spiritual. Therefore he has duality of existence. Christ exhibited such *duality* *of existence* after his death and resurrection. He was able to 'appear' when doors were locked, heard conversations (Thomas) etc, but again he "denied" being a pure spirit as he had "flesh and bones".

I believe you have it a bit different. the manifestation of the Holy Spirit is a PHYICAL aspects, raising the dead, speaking in tongues, ect... that not a “duality”, that just a MANIFESTATION of the SAME SPIRIT.



#4. The Comforter shall teach, he shall instruct, he shall hear... signifying a humanly existence as well. God the Father is the Comforter and this truth Christ secretly alluded to in the below verses: John16.
the Lord Jesus is the Father. just as I have pointed out above. but lets make it plain. John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever”. ok the Father is going to send the Holy Spirit right?. well lets see. John 16:7 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you”. WAIT A MINUTE. I thought in John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter”. but in John 16:7b, JESUS said, “I will send him unto you”. now, I have never known our Lord Jesus to lie?. NO. so what’s going on here?. Jesus is the Father, without flesh and bone. as Son, he’s the “diversity”, or the offspring with flesh and bones. now if you want a duality there it is. that's the "elohiym". see the Lord Jesus is ALLOS with GOD, Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort. that's his Plurality in number
can you see that?. the SAME PERSON only “diversified”, again see, (Phil 2:6-8). God is a plurality in number, but the SAME PERSON. only SHARED, not a division, or copy as a separate person. but one PERSON, SHARING THE THE SAME NATURE IN FLESH AND BONE. the Allos.
so there is no duality of existence. scripture, Ephesians 4:4 "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling”.


#5.Pay attention to verse 15, Christ clarifies that the Comforter was actually his Father. If you see him after a little while because he goes to the Father, it means the Father is the one coming. The Comforter is coming to do an even bigger assignment than Christ. To teach man and to show us things which Christ could not/did not show us. Who is that greater teacher than Christ if not the Father? That is why we must realize that Christ cannot come in a vacuum. He must come through his Father who is the owner of the kingdom. You will now understand the parable of the wicked husbandmen: Mathew 21
well I believe you are in ERROR here. Jesus is the Comforter, as the diversity, listen, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous”. that word “advocate”, is G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (par-ak'-lay-tos). which can be translated as “COMFORTER”. or an intercessor. see, as a diversity, he, (JESUS), is both God, and Lord as Thomas declared, “My Lord and my God”. so accord to the Spirit, he’s no one’s Son.. only in the flesh, as a diversity is he a Son.

Now the rest I see as irrelevant to the topic,
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 101c View Post
#3.The returned Christ is already in the world. The world does not know him, except he calls you, you cannot know him. If you read Dan 7:9-13 & Rev chapter 4-Rev chapter 7, it is clear that God, Christ will be on the earth during the 'tribulations" or the last days. The last days started since 1918. The foundation of the kingdom of God on earth was laid on 8/8/58. But like all things Godly, man will not recognize it until it is too late. And there are many precedents:
This is Jehovah Witness.
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Old 03-06-2014, 12:55 AM
 
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Jesus and The Father are one in the Holy Spirit. Read John 17 , 1: 6. However, Jesus is not the Father. Jesus is the first born of all creation. He was created before the world and the universe was created. I have a thread here on creation and if you read that you will understand the compLex relationship in the Trinity.

Jesus is the Holy Spirit is correct, to the extent that he and his Father are one.


However I am dumbfounded by your interpretation of Rev 3:12 which you try to fit to your own understanding. Will detail later.
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Old 03-06-2014, 05:19 AM
 
Location: Mobile, Al.
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Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
Jesus and The Father are one in the Holy Spirit. Read John 17 , 1: 6. However, Jesus is not the Father. Jesus is the first born of all creation. He was created before the world and the universe was created. I have a thread here on creation and if you read that you will understand the compLex relationship in the Trinity.

Jesus is the Holy Spirit is correct, to the extent that he and his Father are one.


However I am dumbfounded by your interpretation of Rev 3:12 which you try to fit to your own understanding. Will detail later.
I'm at a loss myself when you said, "Jesus and The Father are one in the Holy Spirit". and then turnaround and say, "He was created before the world and the universe was created". that's contradictory. our Lord Jesus is GOD in flesh as the diversity, meaning his flesh was to come. supportive scripture, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come". Christ was TO COME. so if Christ was to come, that mean he was not created before the world. and by him coming, that me he had to already be existing, not created. there was no one with him when he created the universe, and everything in it. Isaiah 45:18 "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else". if there is none else. and Christ is to come, that means only one thing. Christ is God in Flesh.

Rev 3:12, again it speak for it self. notice the high light at the end of the verse. Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. God's Name is JESUS.

be blessed.

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Old 03-06-2014, 11:27 AM
Zur
 
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Thank you for the compliment. I have been around the block and have lived to the beginning of old age. About 13 years ago I went on a quest...``what is truth. Truth is a adherence to reality...it is the base message of Jesus Christ. If you give the story of Christ some careful thought you will through God given logic remove some of the silly stuff. The NT is wonderful but it has many misinterpretations.

For instance feeding the multitude with a few fish and a few loaves of bread was a lesson in sharing. There was no silly magic taking place...Many of those that had gathered had brought a lunch probably kept under their cloaks...When Christ set the example of sharing...Those with food brought it out and passed it around...and as we know there was more than enough for all.

The water into wine magic...also can be explained. God or Christ do not and need not resort to magic. Magic by definition is trickery. There is no such thing. If at the wedding party it was late afternoon and the guests had drank their fill of wine. I would surmise it was very hot and they were thirsty. More wine would have brought about harm at that point not goodness.

Christ had the servants fill wine jugs with cool water..of course the water would have been a bit pink from the residue. Water is the source of all life and is holy. The tell tale comment made once the water was served to the dehydrated revelers...was YOU HAVE SAVED THE BEST TILL LAST....it was an inside joke that scholars never quite understood...They were looking for magic.

I can imagine a guest sipping on what they wanted most and what tasted the best WATER.....One can also imagine the tongue and cheek comment...Drinking and calling blessed water wine.

Now as far as the rapture is concerned - it is for the most part a cowardly bit of selfish wishful thinking. God does not play favorites. He rains on the wicked as well as the good. Those who believe they are better and more godly human beings and they will escape through the rapture - leaving all the BAD people behind are mistaken. Human beings punish and judge other human beings. God is not a punishing God...He would not punish some and reward others. This is a controlling human concept.


The best we can do as death approaches and the evils of nature and time are about to over take our mortal bodies....Is to hope for mercy from the creator...to hope that he or it will be gentle and not frighten us to much. The rapture is the essence of new age Christianity. IT is Christian elitism. In the end rich or poor...powerful or weak - we end up equal near death...God will show grace.....now to my point.

The term GRACE does not mean a smooth and perfect dance. Grace by definition is THE UNDESERVED MERCY OF GOD. If God can grant mercy to even the wicked...then surely we can show grace to all as human beings. The concept of the rapture is a show of lack of grace...that some are rewarded and to hell with the others. Those into the rapture gloat in the idea that only they will be saved and taken away - and the rest are left to suffer. I can not believe that God is cruel...we are mere microbes on this speck of dust called earth...God is not some cruel child burning misbehave ants with a magnifying glass. These are human attributes...God is not cruel or disloyal....People can be.
To explain miracles I have another story for you. A boy asked his father, how the Israelis could go through the dead see. The father said, that is simple to answer, the water was only 20 cm deep. The boy thought a moment and than said: than the miracle is even grater, because the Egyptian army was destroyed in 20 cm water.
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:34 AM
 
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This is Jehovah Witness.
No it isn't.
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