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Old 10-02-2013, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,238,353 times
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Christians constantly emphasis that the Bible is the rock upon which faith in God, Jesus, salvation, heaven.etc is built on. Christians and Atheists have an 'all or nothing' approach to the Bible: either it's all true, or it's all bunk.

It's claimed that the Bible is the very Word of God, inspired by God. Of course there are tons of issues with it, but when considering the arguments why the Bible is divine, for me, it all hangs on prophecy. For instance, the website gotquestions.org gives the following reasons:

Is the Bible truly God's Word?

To be honest, none of these is that conclusive (let alone proof) except proven prophecy...even that's not totally conclusive, but it at least suggests there's something supernatural, that perhaps some divine intelligence is at work here. Things like archeological evidence - even if the Bible is historically accurate, that means nothing if those divine, supernatural events (God talking to Moses, parting of the Red Sea, Virgin Birth, Resurrection) did not take place. Internal/external evidences don't tell us anything about whether it's divine/inspired or not...nor does the 'unity' or the 'integrity of it's human authors' which is probably the weakest of the arguments, as well as the argument that many lives have been changed by it. Many lives have been changed by the Quran or Dale Carnegie's 'How to win friends and influence people' but that does not make Dale Carnegie God.

I'm a struggling Christian, and I honestly wish there were more solid reasons to believe that the Bible is God's word, but considering so much of it is implausible (Noah's ark, Jewish cosmology, anthropocentric God) or disturbing/depression (that most people are pre-destined to be condemned to eternal torment, which I don't believe the Bible teaches actually but that's what many believe it teaches) I feel I need more solid reasons to believe.

So can anyone help me out here? Provide me with rock solid evidence that the Bible has a supernatural author that cannot be easily explained away?
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:55 AM
Status: "Smacking fundies." (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,802 posts, read 13,408,706 times
Reputation: 11671
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
...snip....
I'm a struggling Christian, and I honestly wish there were more solid reasons to believe that the Bible is God's word, but considering so much of it is implausible (Noah's ark, Jewish cosmology, anthropocentric God) or disturbing/depression (that most people are pre-destined to be condemned to eternal torment, which I don't believe the Bible teaches actually but that's what many believe it teaches) I feel I need more solid reasons to believe.

So can anyone help me out here? Provide me with rock solid evidence that the Bible has a supernatural author that cannot be easily explained away?
Sorry, I can't help. I don't believe the bible was inspired by/dictated via/channeled from/ God. As you noted, there are too many obvious disparities between it and reality.

I do believe the universe was inspired by God. And I find contemplating it is infinitely more interesting (not to mention more real) than the stories I've read in the bible.

I wish you well in finding a path that feels true to you.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,331 times
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I hold to the inerrant message. IF Adam was a true tale or not is irrelevant, the lessons and conclusions of it are solid.

if Noah was a true tale or not is irrelevant the lessons and conclusions are solid.

Few people, even atheists doubt that Jesus known as the Christ actually existed,. Correction few serious scholars. The debate is over what/who he was.

The message Christ taught, and His disciples taught, (NOT NECESSARILY the stuff you hear in Church, but what they taught) will change your life. It will change your life how it states it will change your life. KNOWING Him, is a result of maturity in the lifestyle. If you want to KNOW He is there or not, live the life, it says you will have your proof then.

What do you lose, you live a better life, how does that suck?
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:10 AM
 
1,263 posts, read 1,087,373 times
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Name any other "religion" where their god left writings that have accurately declared the end from the beginning? Just because one with their finite mind cannot wrap their head around an infinite God doesn't make it less truth.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:13 AM
 
9,766 posts, read 6,726,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
I'm a struggling Christian, and I honestly wish there were more solid reasons to believe that the Bible is God's word, but considering so much of it is implausible (Noah's ark, Jewish cosmology, anthropocentric God) or disturbing/depression (that most people are pre-destined to be condemned to eternal torment, which I don't believe the Bible teaches actually but that's what many believe it teaches) I feel I need more solid reasons to believe.

So can anyone help me out here? Provide me with rock solid evidence that the Bible has a supernatural author that cannot be easily explained away?
The bible is not likely to be the word of God. All religion is man made.

That does not stop me from believing in God. I don't need to have 100% proof. The creation of the universe and life itself is all the proof I need.

I believe to complete my human condition and to rejoice in life. It is quite possible for any man to be a man of God even if everything we think we know about God is wrong. It is all within you!

Are you looking for eternal life?
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
The bible is not likely to be the word of God. All religion is man made.

That does not stop me from believing in God. I don't need to have 100% proof. The creation of the universe and life itself is all the proof I need.

I believe to complete my human condition and to rejoice in life. It is quite possible for any man to be a man of God even if everything we think we know about God is wrong. It is all within you!

Are you looking for eternal life?
Religion is what people do with the Bible, not the Bible.

I can't accept your premise there.
But, a lot of the gist of your comment I'm good with, how man affects changes that aren't Godly, how you don't need the bible to believe in God, etc.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:23 AM
 
9,766 posts, read 6,726,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
Religion is what people do with the Bible, not the Bible.

I can't accept your premise there.
But, a lot of the gist of your comment I'm good with, how man affects changes that aren't Godly, how you don't need the bible to believe in God, etc.
OK, the Bible is the word of God as interpreted by MAN. The true word of God within my Catholic tradition would be Jesus. However, Jesus did not write anything.

To elevate the Bible to a divine status is to have a view of God that is very limited. God is MUCH MORE than a book full of inconsistencies.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,261 posts, read 7,650,467 times
Reputation: 1718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
I hold to the inerrant message. IF Adam was a true tale or not is irrelevant, the lessons and conclusions of it are solid.

if Noah was a true tale or not is irrelevant the lessons and conclusions are solid.

Few people, even atheists doubt that Jesus known as the Christ actually existed,. Correction few serious scholars. The debate is over what/who he was.

The message Christ taught, and His disciples taught, (NOT NECESSARILY the stuff you hear in Church, but what they taught) will change your life. It will change your life how it states it will change your life. KNOWING Him, is a result of maturity in the lifestyle. If you want to KNOW He is there or not, live the life, it says you will have your proof then.

What do you lose, you live a better life, how does that suck?
OUTstanding observation! I have a feeling a lot of people would miss what you are saying so I want to emphasize it strongly.

If the Old Testament is a collection of myths, legends, biased histories and amazing social commentary that reflects a growing perception on the nature of God within one ethnic group, is it less of a lesson than if it had been dictated by God with all its faults and contradictions? I think the former view is more inspiring.
If the New Testament is a collection of the ideas, perceptions and memories of the earliest Christians that was subject to some contradictory ideas and to some "creative editing" both before and after composition, but the message of love as a basis for relating with God and man is clear, does it matter that the book is not perfect?

One other point: did Jesus promise a book nto lead us into all truth or something else?
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:28 AM
 
Location: USA
15,906 posts, read 8,167,734 times
Reputation: 2103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
The bible is not likely to be the word of God. All religion is man made.

That does not stop me from believing in God. I don't need to have 100% proof. The creation of the universe and life itself is all the proof I need.

I believe to complete my human condition and to rejoice in life. It is quite possible for any man to be a man of God even if everything we think we know about God is wrong. It is all within you!

Are you looking for eternal life?
I like your take on this, Julian.

Postman, for me the Bible is a mixture of truths and untruths, and a snapshot of ancient beliefs about God. The truths are profound, and the misconceptions about God are an interesting study in themselves.

However, for those of us who were raised and indoctrinated to read the bible through the lens of belief in a wrathful God and of doom and gloom for those who don't believe the "right" things, sometimes putting some distance between ourselves and the bible is a good idea. As well, for those of us who were taught that the only way we could know God was through that collection of books called the Bible, putting it aside for a time can help us to experience more fully that God does not reside in a book, no matter how much wisdom it may hold. It is freeing.
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Old 10-02-2013, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,331 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
OK, the Bible is the word of God as interpreted by MAN. The true word of God within my Catholic tradition would be Jesus. However, Jesus did not write anything.

To elevate the Bible to a divine status is to have a view of God that is very limited. God is MUCH MORE than a book full of inconsistencies.
Catholic Dogma doesn't match-up with your first sentence... It's not using the word LOGOS correctly. The Bible and Christ are both LOGOS but they are not the same LOGOS. Your library in high school was LOGOS, your lease agreement was LOGOS, etc.

I think the one thing you need to know is if someone says the Bible is the ONLY AUTHORITY, Paul told timothy to pass on what he SAID (not wrote) and make sure the next generation passes it on too.

The Bible as the sole authority, says point blank it's not the sole authority.
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