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Old 10-03-2013, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,556 posts, read 11,891,482 times
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Christ came to put an end to Levitical law, and that was no small doing. In fact, it's the reason the book of Hebrews was written. Imagine a society built around 613 commandments from God (many resulting in death if they were broken), and the hold it had on the people after so many generations.

Seriously, think about that.

Now comes a message that "unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall never enter into the kingdom of heaven" - no wonder they crucified Him - the people needed a complete paradigm shift. The story of the rich young ruler is not the end of line, but I firmly believe that Jesus told people what they needed to hear then, just as He does today.

Despair is not the end of the journey if there's hope, but it can turn you from a wrong mindset.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
After salvation you have maturation. That's all through the NT.
I see grace and not law all through the NT.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Oviedo
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Teleios means mature, literally. (fully grown, come to the end of an objective).
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Christ came to put an end to Levitical law, and that was no small doing.
I think it says fulfill the law, not put an end to the law. You can fulfill something without ending it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
In fact, it's the reason the book of Hebrews was written. Imagine a society built around 613 commandments from God (many resulting in death if they were broken), and the hold it had on the people after so many generations.

Seriously, think about that.
Melchizedek's priesthood existed before the law. That is how Christ's church is fashioned, as you say, look in hebrews/ and psalm 110 and Christ mentions it himself at a point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Now comes a message that "unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall never enter into the kingdom of heaven" - no wonder they crucified Him - the people needed a complete paradigm shift. The story of the rich young ruler is not the end of line, but I firmly believe that Jesus told people what they needed to hear then, just as He does today.

Despair is not the end of the journey if there's hope, but it can turn you from a wrong mindset.
I can take the two bold lines several ways, can you help me out there?
How did you mean them?
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:28 PM
 
794 posts, read 676,767 times
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Before Jesus said to sell all your goods and give the money to the poor, He used the law first to answer the man's question. But the law in the mind of the man who asked Jesus this question did not reveal a fault in this man's mind. When that happened, Jesus revealed the one thing this man would not do because he was very wealthy, to give everything he has to the poor. When Jesus said this, it brought the man to the end of himself. What this man knew about God's law did not bring him to the end of himself. It wasn't until the in-capabilities in this man's life were revealed that he was able to be brought to the end of his self efforts to earn salvation. When that happens, you are able to realize you need a savior. Romans 5:19 "By one man's disobedience (Adam's disobedience) many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience (Jesus' obedience) many will be made righteous." It is not our obedience that saves us, but believing in Jesus' once and for all sacrifice that lets God know we have come to the end of ourselves and need a savior that saves us.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
I see grace and not law all through the NT.
What does law have to do with anything? You might as well have said no peanut butter in the NT for all I can tell. Law has nothing to do with anytihng around this chat that I can see. I just can't figure out where you want me to go with that. Help please?
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,556 posts, read 11,891,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
I can take the two bold lines several ways, can you help me out there?
How did you mean them?
romans519 answered it quite well.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,556 posts, read 11,891,482 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
What does law have to do with anything? ...Help please?
The entire passage is about law! The rich young (denoting immature) ruler came to Jesus with his obedience in mind - that's the Law, righteousness based on our works.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romans519 View Post
Before Jesus said to sell all your goods and give the money to the poor, He used the law first to answer the man's question.
Ok, that's a deduction from scripture but isn't stated in scripture. As a deduction, it is arguable. So, could you explain how you got there for those who don't understand or are new to this discussion in general?


Quote:
Originally Posted by romans519 View Post
But the law in the mind of the man who asked Jesus this question did not reveal a fault in this man's mind.
There is nothing that says this. Did you have road to damascus event for this revelation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by romans519 View Post
When that happened, Jesus revealed the one thing this man would not do because he was very wealthy, to give everything he has to the poor.
Another presumption, you/we don't' know if or if not he would or did do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by romans519 View Post
When Jesus said this, it brought the man to the end of himself. What this man knew about God's law did not bring him to the end of himself. It wasn't until the in-capabilities in this man's life were revealed that he was able to be brought to the end of his self efforts to earn salvation.
I'm sorry, I really have no clue what that is saying. I'm not commenting on your argument or words, it's self deprecating, I'm lost in the syntax. Please help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by romans519 View Post
When that happens, you are able to realize you need a savior. Romans 5:19 "By one man's disobedience (Adam's disobedience) many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience (Jesus' obedience) many will be made righteous." It is not our obedience that saves us, but believing in Jesus' once and for all sacrifice that lets God know we have come to the end of ourselves and need a savior that saves us.
Ok, this is the typical seminary answer, but it's based solely on suppositions, not on scripture. I understand it makes sense to you, but that doesn't make it so. Gideon surely didn't make sense of charging with crock pots and bugles but he went anyway.

So before we start using the suppositions to explore possibilities, let's deal with what we DO have, which is the scripture given above in the opening post. OR OTHER scripture if you have it. But you can't PRESUME a man's thoughts who is dead for 2000 years and proclaim it changes what was written.

That's just not fair and it's esiegetics, not exegetics.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
romans519 answered it quite well.
If you can't answer, just say so. I can't read your mind. I don't know what you think it means. So good luck with ya. It was nice talking around ya.
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