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Old 10-06-2013, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,677 times
Reputation: 42

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[quote=garya123;31693333]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
Is the Bread of Life a poor diet or a rich meal of the fruit of the Spirit. What man who is poor of spirit wouldn't want that rich meal if only he believed he could get it from Christ.
Any man who wanted to be HIS and inherit the Kingdom of God. That's what scripture says. If what MAN WANTED could make Him holy, Christ wouldn't be teaching we needed to be poor/and dependent. WHAT WE WANT is what you follow IS WHAT GOT US IN THIS BIG PILE OF T-REX FERTILIZER WE ARE IN NOW!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
To die to self/"one life" that produces only poverty of spirit is to be "born in another" by the Spirit of His riches in Christ.

You can't get anything from a relationship wanting riches, and expecting riches. That's Anti Christ. THAT is a god that serves you, not a GOD who is LORD.

You are His tool, not His personal Pet and project.

MYSTIC said something that I think was revelatory. I'd like to be right on the time and always be teaching, never learning, but if I think I know everything and don't listen AND learn, I'm not qualified to be a teacher to anyone. SO I listen, still, and what he said was something like this, the issue God has with MAN, is with the whole creation/species of man, not as much each individual.

That would be consistent with whole chunks of scripture off of the top of my head, I haven't dug into it yet. So, I can't say for sure yet, to what extent it's dead on. But it's an entirely qualified thought to pursue. IT COULD be what it means.

So, here is my challenge for you, what do you think? AND will you turn ONE PAGE before you make up your mind what you think, or is your mind made up and you only turn pages to find proof?

I know the answer. When you admit to the answer, you can take a step in life.

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is fruit.

Wisdom is not using it in a fruit salad.

I'm not eating your salad, yet.
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Old 10-06-2013, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,677 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I think your problem is that you see disagreement and argument where there is none. I just told you that you can use either word, because if does not change anything in the message, but behave as if there is a major disagreement.
really?

Read like you were dismissing mature for complete.

My bad.


Err I should say, I read...
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Old 10-06-2013, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,677 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
Indeed. I was showing how a man poor of spirit need not stay that way because the Kingdom of God belongs to such if they believe what Jesus said. What possible disagreement can one have over such an invitation to become rich of spirit in the Kingdom. Blessing to you Finn_Jarber for seeing the obvious.
You both are just factoring out that the word for POOR, includes a DEPENDENCE, not an aching desire(which you imply) for more. The whole concept is, that you don't have anything, and that makes you lean on Him, and then all you have is only what He gives.

reduced to beggary, begging, asking alms
destitute of wealth, influence, position, honour


Jesus healed the sick who had no hope. They were fully dependent on them. NONE OF THEM became wealthy, in any sense other than they had a health they didn't have before. They were not held in esteem in His eyes, and their status in life was not elevated.

2Cr 12:9
And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

2Cr 12:10
Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

GOD is your strength, not GOD makes you strong.
In your view, you become strong, in the other, you remain weak and HIS strength carries you.
one is self centered, the other is God centered.

Isa 12:2
“Behold, God is my salvation,
I will trust and not be afraid;
For the LORD GOD is my strength and song,
And He has become my salvation.”

God carries you with His strength, not strengthens you to carry yourself.
Hab 3:19
The Lord fnGOD is my strength,
And He has made my feet like hinds' feet,
And makes me walk on my high places.
For the choir director, on my stringed instruments.

God is like the bus taking us through life, our strength is in Him.
Psa 62:7
On God my salvation and my glory rest;
The rock of my strength, my refuge is in God.
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Old 10-06-2013, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Florida
63,185 posts, read 34,417,667 times
Reputation: 10515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
really?

Read like you were dismissing mature for complete.
Yes, really. Nothing was dismissed. I said you can use perfect, complete, or mature and it won't change the meaning one bit. Pay attention, and don't be so eager to disagree when there is no disagreement.

Quote:
Err I should say, I read...
Read, but pay attention as you do.
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Old 10-06-2013, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,677 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yes, really. Nothing was dismissed. I said you can use perfect, complete, or mature and it won't change the meaning one bit. Pay attention, and don't be so eager to disagree when there is no disagreement.

Read, but pay attention as you do.
Moderator cut: deleted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
It means perfect / complete, but if you prefer to use mature, it is fine because it does not change the meaning, which I already explained.
You said it means PERFECT AND COMPLETE.

Then you implied mature was ok if I preferred, as if it was my personal opinion only, and you would allow it. that doesn't admit that mature is part of the definition, it only needs be assumed you "allowed" it to condescendingly let me say what I wish, it won't change the meaning, which was PERFECT COMPLETE.

So, Jabber, my interpretation wasn't a desire to disagree, it was your poor syntax, or you getting busted and trying to save face. I read it as written,

Defined with two words.

the other "allowed" for my opinion.

but the allowed for, disconnected to the two you defined it as.

I read it in the most possible meaning, as it is written.

Moderator cut: deleted

Last edited by june 7th; 10-06-2013 at 03:36 PM.. Reason: Rude remarks or comments directed at other members are not allowed.
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Old 10-06-2013, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Florida
63,185 posts, read 34,417,667 times
Reputation: 10515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
Oh Jabber, of Wockeyville,

You said it means PERFECT AND COMPLETE.

So, Jabber........
I said perfect / complete, but if you prefer to use mature

Any of the above will do, because it does not change the meaning.

Again, please pay attention.

PS. It's childish to twist people's names like that.
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Old 10-06-2013, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,677 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I said perfect / complete, but if you prefer to use mature

Any of the above will do, because it does not change the meaning.

Again, please pay attention.

PS. It's childish to twist people's names like that.
Moderator cut: deleted You defined the word perfect with two words. Then you said in a way that implied it was my pet/opinion whatever view of the word mature.

That does not necessarily read mature to be inclusive with the other two words. It is separated by the Declarative words you gave, and the one that is "my word" that you endure. The gracious endurement, doesn't carry the same authority as the declarative you gave.

You are right on one thing. There is one of us trying to jump to conclusions. That's why I ignored the mighty Jabberwock within three posts when I got here.

Example:
From:::: A Humorous Look at The Importance of Punctuation | Online Editing and Proofreading Services. Affordable Editors and Proofreaders.

Dear John:
I want a man who knows what love is all about. You are generous, kind, thoughtful. People who are not like you admit to being useless and inferior. You have ruined me for other men. I yearn for you. I have no feelings whatsoever when we're apart. I can be forever happy--will you let me be yours?
Jane
What happens to the letter if there were some punctuation mistakes and it was punctuated in an entirely different fashion?
Dear John,
I want a man who knows what love is. All about you are generous, kind, thoughtful people, who are not like you. Admit to being useless and inferior. You have ruined me. For other men, I yearn. For you, I have no feelings whatsoever. When we're apart, I can be forever happy. Will you let me be?
Yours,
Jane

Last edited by june 7th; 10-06-2013 at 03:46 PM.. Reason: In pushing your agenda, you are veering off topic in scrutinizing other member, as opposed to addressing elements of the OP.
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Old 10-06-2013, 05:45 PM
 
2,532 posts, read 2,019,723 times
Reputation: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
You both are just factoring out that the word for POOR, includes a DEPENDENCE, not an aching desire(which you imply) for more. The whole concept is, that you don't have anything, and that makes you lean on Him, and then all you have is only what He gives.

reduced to beggary, begging, asking alms
destitute of wealth, influence, position, honour


Jesus healed the sick who had no hope. They were fully dependent on them. NONE OF THEM became wealthy, in any sense other than they had a health they didn't have before. They were not held in esteem in His eyes, and their status in life was not elevated.

2Cr 12:9
And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

2Cr 12:10
Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

GOD is your strength, not GOD makes you strong.
In your view, you become strong, in the other, you remain weak and HIS strength carries you.
one is self centered, the other is God centered.

Isa 12:2
“Behold, God is my salvation,
I will trust and not be afraid;
For the LORD GOD is my strength and song,
And He has become my salvation.”

God carries you with His strength, not strengthens you to carry yourself.
Hab 3:19
The Lord fnGOD is my strength,
And He has made my feet like hinds' feet,
And makes me walk on my high places.
For the choir director, on my stringed instruments.

God is like the bus taking us through life, our strength is in Him.
Psa 62:7
On God my salvation and my glory rest;
The rock of my strength, my refuge is in God.
No,no,no, I am not factoring out what poor means. It means that I am poor on my own but made strong in Christ. I am poor in spirit if I rely on my self but rich in glory if I rely on His righteousness. It seems that you think that I was talking about material wealth which I was not.

God reaches out to the poor of spirit Himself and also often times by provoking them to desire by the riches of the faith, hope and love witnessed in those who have already received. Desire is born in the poor of spirit when they see that God makes spiritually rich if one puts their trust in Him.
2COR 8:9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though He was rich [in everything], yet for your sakes He became poor [just a poor carpenter to some], that you through His poverty might be rich [in spirit].
And of us it is written, 2COR 6:10 "As sorrowful [even as He was at times because of being rejected], yet always rejoicing; as poor [materially, as many of us are], yet making made rich [spiritually].; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things."

It is as you quoted, "God is my strength" because in my self/the fleshly nature, I have no strength and no Glory. It is written, PS 3:3 But You, O LORD, are a shield for me; my glory, and the lifter up of my head." Boldness and confidence are hallmarks of the Kingdom, the lifting from a state of being poor of spirit to begin with but rewarded with richness of spirit for those who seek.

ROM 11:33 "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and his ways past finding out!"

So what is the beef and what is your strong suit to put down what I am saying? The Scriptures you quoted only bolster what I have been saying all along.
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Old 10-06-2013, 06:24 PM
 
6,822 posts, read 5,160,927 times
Reputation: 3730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
Do you believe there is a state of Xian maturity that is "grown into" after salvation?
Or do you see salvation as the final and only purpose?
I believe that "He that begun a good in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1:6) as "it is God that works in you both to will and to do His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13), which is to be conformed to the image of His Son (Romans 8), kept by the power of God (1 peter 1:5), as JESUS is able to save believers to the uttermost that come to God by Him as He lives and makes intercession for us as our High Priest (Hebrews 7:25).

Salvation by God's Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ, not of works lest any Man should boast..(Ephesians 2:8)...Totally apart from merit on Man's part.

Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
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Old 10-06-2013, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,677 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
No,no,no, I am not factoring out what poor means. It means that I am poor on my own but made strong in Christ.
NO NO NO I"m not talking about meat, I'[m talking about vegetables. So there was this steak on the plate....

There is nothing that includes dependence in that sentence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
I am poor in spirit if I rely on my self but rich in glory if I rely on His righteousness. It seems that you think that I was talking about material wealth which I was not.
ummm not material. I'll read on.... let's see. I'm commenting as I read, you get a peek in how I see things that way.

I sit here for about 20 minutes on that verse. I took the two chapters, and put them together, I drew pictures for the subjects and the modifiers, just like you would do if you were making a flow chart for programming. I'm pretty sure you aren't using it right. BUT in my experience so far, it doesn't matter, you won't address it, so I'll take your lead and just put opinions on the table until you bite on one and engage it rather than avoiding it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
God reaches out to the poor of spirit Himself and also often times by provoking them to desire by the riches of the faith, hope and love witnessed in those who have already received. Desire is born in the poor of spirit when they see that God makes spiritually rich if one puts their trust in Him.
2COR 8:9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though He was rich [in everything], yet for your sakes He became poor [just a poor carpenter to some], that you through His poverty might be rich [in spirit].
And of us it is written, 2COR 6:10 "As sorrowful [even as He was at times because of being rejected], yet always rejoicing; as poor [materially, as many of us are], yet making made rich [spiritually].; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things."

It is as you quoted, "God is my strength" because in my self/the fleshly nature, I have no strength and no Glory. It is written, PS 3:3 But You, O LORD, are a shield for me; my glory, and the lifter up of my head." Boldness and confidence are hallmarks of the Kingdom, the lifting from a state of being poor of spirit to begin with but rewarded with richness of spirit for those who seek.

ROM 11:33 "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and his ways past finding out!"

So what is the beef and what is your strong suit to put down what I am saying? The Scriptures you quoted only bolster what I have been saying all along.
Here is the beef.... I'll be really honest here, since you asked; I hope you can respect the answer.

People that don't engage the points of a discussion that stand against them, and just continue to plow forward insisting they are right but never answering things that say otherwise annoy me. At that point I don't trust them.

Second, your wording, is putting way more emphasis on the riches.

If you go into it for the riches, you'll never lay hold of the riches. I can take what you say, and match it to my image of the topic. But the way you write it, seems to hint that you put a lot more emphasis on the person than I think is there at all.

Perhaps engaging some of the other things, I'd have better picture, dunno. As it is, it just seems you tried to make a slightly off center a little different to get approval. As I said, IT SEEMS to me from my view. There is no accusation there.

You are His tool for rightesouness. Tools are kept in a box til they are needed, they are pulled out, used and put away until the next time they are needed. They don't sit there and look forward to rewards.

We serve Him. The way you word it sounds as if you think it's about you, not him.

It's the wording. I'm very confident I'll be able to put a finger on it, but until then, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. We all think differently, how you sound and appear doesn't mean that is how you are. Text is lacking afterall.
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