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Old 10-04-2013, 08:13 PM
 
9,813 posts, read 6,735,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Done? Uh, no.

We preach salvation to the lost, not to the saved. Any given Sunday, there is likely to be someone unsaved in the service. We believe a person must:

9 Confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, and you will be saved.

Romans 10

We also preach and teach discipleship to the saved. We understand sanctification.
During mass you will seldom see the priest looking for people to save. As a Catholic that lives like Jesus I am saved, that is not a concern. The homily is about how to be a good Christian and how to be in communication with God through prayer. Other themes include how to forgive others. The homily is often centered on the readings for the day which usually includes the OT, NT, singing of a psalm, and one of the Gospels (read by the priest). The same Bible readings are used by all Catholics Churches in the world on that given Sunday.

I will tell you that if a non-believer goes to a Catholic church thinking he is going to be saved in an instant by becoming born again he will be disappointed. Salvation will require baptism, repentance for sins, accepting Jesus, and living as a Christian till death. If the person turns away from God he will have to start all over again. The salvation is not for the rest of his life if he turns away from God.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:25 PM
Status: "Living rent-free in Mr. Wade’s head" (set 19 hours ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
16,360 posts, read 8,903,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
During mass you will seldom see the priest looking for people to save. As a Catholic that lives like Jesus I am saved, that is not a concern. The homily is about how to be a good Christian and how to be in communication with God through prayer. Other themes include how to forgive others. The homily is often centered on the readings for the day which usually includes the OT, NT, singing of a psalm, and one of the Gospels (read by the priest). The same Bible readings are used by all Catholics Churches in the world on that given Sunday.
Yeah, we do that too. We do not inquire as to whether a person is saved or not. We just believe there is likely someone who is not, so we share the Good News of Christ's forgiveness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
I will tell you that if a non-believer goes to a Catholic church thinking he is going to be saved in an instant by becoming born again he will be disappointed. Salvation will require baptism, repentance for sins, accepting Jesus, and living as a Christian till death. If the person turns away from God he will have to start all over again. The salvation is not for the rest of his life if he turns away from God.
We believe that a person can be saved instantly by:

9 Confessing with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believing in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

If a person is sincere, they are saved. Period. Then we encourage them to be baptized and join a Biblically-based church, that they may grow in righteousness. I belong to a mega-church, with several thousand in attendance each week. We see people saved and baptized every week.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
8,036 posts, read 4,202,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
The analogy is not good because you are ascribing human qualities to God. Furthermore, God relies on "free will" and you do not give free will to your kids.
God is constantly ascribing human qualities to himself in scripture ... so ...

Honestly, not sure where you're going with this "human qualities" bit. Could you explain please?
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
The analogy is not good because you are ascribing human qualities to God. Furthermore, God relies on "free will" and you do not give free will to your kids.
It's called anthropomorphisms.

The whole bible does it.

"Right hand of God" for example.

There IS NO FREE WILL in the Bible.

GOD RELIES ON NOTHING, HE's OMNISTINKINGPOTENT. That means he relies on nothing, he's all powerful.

Show me free will. Don't give me some corndog opinion of why you think it's there. Show me in the Bible.

NOTE: having a choice isn't free will. If I control what you can choose, I control where you go. No matter what your will is, I control where you go.

You enter a hall way (part of life)
To the left are three doors with different dangers behind each one. Mountain line, on fire, radioactive fall out.

Free will is to survive.

Once in the hall you can't go back (backwards in time)

The end of the hall is an indiana jones, spiked collapsing wall trap. You have to make a choice or surely die.

You can turn left or left or left. and die die die.

Your have freedom to choose.

That is not free will.

God is sovreign.
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Old 10-04-2013, 09:55 PM
 
9,813 posts, read 6,735,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
It's called anthropomorphisms.

The whole bible does it.

"Right hand of God" for example.
Sure, we there is allegory and plenty of poetic liberty. But, the poster is not the Bible.

Quote:
There IS NO FREE WILL in the Bible.


GOD RELIES ON NOTHING, HE's OMNISTINKINGPOTENT. That means he relies on nothing, he's all powerful.

Show me free will. Don't give me some corndog opinion of why you think it's there. Show me in the Bible.

NOTE: having a choice isn't free will. If I control what you can choose, I control where you go. No matter what your will is, I control where you go.

You enter a hall way (part of life)
To the left are three doors with different dangers behind each one. Mountain line, on fire, radioactive fall out.

Free will is to survive.

Once in the hall you can't go back (backwards in time)

The end of the hall is an indiana jones, spiked collapsing wall trap. You have to make a choice or surely die.

You can turn left or left or left. and die die die.

Your have freedom to choose.

That is not free will.

God is sovreign.
Bible writers had no concept of free will.

I agree, there is no absolute free and at some level our lives are predetermined.

Nevertheless, there is freedom (or mini free will) and this is essential to the creation of God.

I love to play gold because i fail to play well most of the time and i will never play perfectly. Golf will always be associated with a struggle and that is why the game is attractive. Life is the same way. We have no guarantee to succeed. The presence of free will allow humans to make errors and it also allows other humans to cause us harm. Free will also allows accidents that may cause death. Yes, life can be difficult. The struggle is the end result of free will.

If we did not struggle I would make a birdie in every hole and that sort of guaranteed success is very boring. Who wants to live like that?

If God had created a paradise where no one struggles and everybody has success then we are nothing but puppets.
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Old 10-04-2013, 10:06 PM
 
9,813 posts, read 6,735,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post

We believe that a person can be saved instantly by:
People don't go to the front of the church to be instantly saved. Don't get me wrong, I understand the attraction and how this brings new converts. But, that is not my cup of cake. I rather be the best Christian I can be .

You cannot join the Catholic Church in an instant. It would take you at least a year and several steps to be part of the Church. There is nothing instant about it.

I sometimes talk to Evangelicals and they ask me if I am saved. This is not my emphasis because it is a given. Listen to Pope Francis: He is not trying to save people left and right. He simply wants people to be good Christians and salvation takes care of itself.
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Old 10-05-2013, 05:56 AM
Status: "Living rent-free in Mr. Wade’s head" (set 19 hours ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
16,360 posts, read 8,903,254 times
Reputation: 1659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
People don't go to the front of the church to be instantly saved. Don't get me wrong, I understand the attraction and how this brings new converts. But, that is not my cup of cake. I rather be the best Christian I can be .

You cannot join the Catholic Church in an instant. It would take you at least a year and several steps to be part of the Church. There is nothing instant about it.

I sometimes talk to Evangelicals and they ask me if I am saved. This is not my emphasis because it is a given. Listen to Pope Francis: He is not trying to save people left and right. He simply wants people to be good Christians and salvation takes care of itself.
Yeah, me too. I am not obsessed with salvation for myself-I'm already saved. Like you, I'm concerned with growing spiritually.

On the other hand, we know there are many unsaved people. If anyone expresses an interest in becoming a Christian, we share the Good News with them. After a person is saved, we encourage them to grow in the Lord. We provide opportunities for worship, Bible study and ministry.

Not really much different from your church.
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Old 10-05-2013, 06:05 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,072 posts, read 34,350,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
There are several dozen additional (very direct) rules in the Sermon on the Mount. I guess those rules are not as exciting as saving ourselves and living forever.
Why do you think Jesus didnt give the man on the cross a sermon? Because they were about to die, and there was only one thing which mattered at the time. First things first.
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Old 10-05-2013, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,072 posts, read 34,350,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
This may very well be the first thing we agree on.
No, we also agreed on :

- You cannot be saved by your works
- Works result from salvation, and are inspired by the Spirit
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Old 10-05-2013, 06:14 AM
 
Location: Florida
63,072 posts, read 34,350,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saved33 View Post
Great list, Finn. Here's one more:

John 18:37 (ESV): Then Pilate said to him, "So you are a king?" Jesus answered, "You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice."

There's that pesky truth word again.
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