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Old 10-04-2013, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
So if everyone is currently rightous right now then why are we even concerned about having this conversation?
Who said, anywhere, that everyone is righteous right now.

Let's address the strawman and work from there.
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,559 posts, read 11,898,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
I'm still a bit confused. So a Murderer doesn't come to Christ right now but is still doing the work of murder and doing their own thing, are they then righteous right now?
...and I'm back!

It's upon faith in Christ that we're made righteous (Christianity 101, topic A, subtopic 3b).

How God sees us is a matter that is slightly above all of our pay grades.

Yes, He (God in Christ) finished the work.

Yes, He (the Father) sees the finished work.

Yes, He (the Father) only has to look to His right to see Christ, and He sees believers also (we are seated with Him in heavenly places).

But in this realm and present age, faith is given and man responds with his acceptance - and he is changed. That's our understanding as it has been given. However, scripture also mentions saviors in Zion, sons of God to be manifested, as He is so are we in the earth - we have more power than is currently being used...I think we can have more input in a person's salvation than we presently know - we are His body.

Now, we shall tread lightly (and humbly) into the plan of God as it pertains to the ages. I shall not mention the restoration of all things (crap, I did ) but there is definitely a point in time where God will look at His creation and make something that we cannot now conceive.
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,818,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
...and I'm back!

It's upon faith in Christ that we're made righteous (Christianity 101, topic A, subtopic 3b).

How God sees us is a matter that is slightly above all of our pay grades.

Yes, He (God in Christ) finished the work.

Yes, He (the Father) sees the finished work.

Yes, He (the Father) only has to look to His right to see Christ, and He sees believers also (we are seated with Him in heavenly places).

But in this realm and present age, faith is given and man responds with his acceptance - and he is changed. That's our understanding as it has been given. However, scripture also mentions saviors in Zion, sons of God to be manifested, as He is so are we in the earth - we have more power than is currently being used...I think we can have more input in a person's salvation than we presently know - we are His body.

Now, we shall tread lightly (and humbly) into the plan of God as it pertains to the ages. I shall not mention the restoration of all things (crap, I did ) but there is definitely a point in time where God will look at His creation and make something that we cannot now conceive.
Ok, I'm focusing in on what you said in the OP which was: "... Righteousness has been imputed to us..."

Do you believe that we are all righteous now (including the murder example I gave) or that only certain people are righteous now? That is where my confusion in your statement is - because I'm taking it that your saying that all are righteous NOW - presently.
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,559 posts, read 11,898,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Ok, I'm focusing in on what you said in the OP which was: "... Righteousness has been imputed to us..."

Do you believe that we are all righteous now (including the murder example I gave) or that only certain people are righteous now? That is where my confusion in your statement is - because I'm taking it that your saying that all are righteous NOW - presently.
Would you believe "as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he"?

1 Cor 11:31 sheds some light on this: ..."if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment". (NIV). God wants us to be...well, a lot higher than we are. Our thoughts contain our destiny - the world's psychologists agree on this, and it's spiritually more true than they know.
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,818,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Would you believe "as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he"?

1 Cor 11:31 sheds some light on this: ..."if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment". (NIV). God wants us to be...well, a lot higher than we are. Our thoughts contain our destiny - the world's psychologists agree on this, and it's spiritually more true than they know.
Then what your saying is that the righteousness is not imputed to us all - universally at this time. In fact, Jesus said to many "sin no more". That means that each person that Jesus said "sin no more" to that He essentially called them "sinners".
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,559 posts, read 11,898,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Then what your saying is that the righteousness is not imputed to us all - universally at this time. In fact, Jesus said to many "sin no more". That means that each person that Jesus said "sin no more" to that He essentially called them "sinners".
Jesus precluded "sin no more" with "neither do I condemn you".

That freedom from Him (instead of condemnation from the enemy) gives people the power to "sin no more".

It's important to remember that the church has been given the ministry of reconciliation, not condemnation. Makes you wonder what's up with a lot of preaching today.
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:19 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,668 posts, read 74,637,859 times
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u r also admonished to clean your hands and make an atonement
asking for forgiveness for sin Unforsaken is futile god will not hear u
the jails r full of such people
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,559 posts, read 11,898,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
u r also admonished to clean your hands and make an atonement
asking for forgiveness for sin Unforsaken is futile god will not hear u
the jails r full of such people
If God didn't hear sinners then we'd all be lost - no one would ever be saved.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,818,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Jesus precluded "sin no more" with "neither do I condemn you".

That freedom from Him (instead of condemnation from the enemy) gives people the power to "sin no more".

It's important to remember that the church has been given the ministry of reconciliation, not condemnation. Makes you wonder what's up with a lot of preaching today.
Your confirming my point. If He said neighter do I condemn you then He saw them as sinners otherwise it would make no sense to say neither do I condemn you.

See what your saying is that ALL are Righteous. And yet if that were the case then it would mean there are NO sinners. And that is the NOT the case. Paul could never say this if that were true:

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Also, note in that verse it mentions obedience unto righteousness.
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Old 10-04-2013, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,559 posts, read 11,898,664 times
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The point is God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself; not holding men's sins against them.

Giving people grace alone won't bring them in, granted; turning a wild animal loose in your living room is not a good idea. But seeing Jesus at the moment of no condemnation sets people free. The goodness of God really does bring men to repentance.
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