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Old 10-04-2013, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Also, note in that verse it mentions obedience unto righteousness.
yes, but Paul paints the picture that you get a benefit while going through obedience, and the benefit leads to sanctification, not the obedience.

Rom 6:22
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Old 10-04-2013, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,559 posts, read 11,897,284 times
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Also, faith leads to righteousness because what we focus on we become.
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Old 10-05-2013, 05:11 AM
 
8,103 posts, read 7,074,218 times
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Yes many people who have a worldly spirit can babble their mouths off and complain about that person or how bad that person or even complain about the pain they have on their bodies, or gossip about the illness of the other people that they know , or the injustice they have with the friends or the job , or they can complain about the church down the road who believes this error or that strange idea .............And all this never take the time to pray together for these problems , and which Jesus cannot help with His grace as no faith or expectation was asked , but instead , as faith was not expressed the demons comes in and curses the people who people complained about making rebellion against God a reality by poor discernment in the spirit ..................... See this is the sin conscious where the poor discernment invited the devil in and make it worst as pray for grace for Jesus redemption can go absent , and people who people complained about the illness of these people do not prayer for grace the illness by the curses of demons which were called on by rebellion to God can be worst than if people would not complain or pray for God grace ................... See believers who do not pray should have the fear of God in all their complaining , and gossiping , as the other title for the rebellion is witchcraft , as it calls and condemnation of sin and illness of others by poor discernment of spirits .....................See the legalism of sin conscious will command Holy Spirit to pass on grace from Jesus for redemptions as no faith was expressed , ..Where if we do sin we go and ask God for forgivenesses , repent , and seek the grace and affirmation that the comforter has redeemed by Jesus for a witness, to be God conscious
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,817,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
The point is God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself; not holding men's sins against them.

Giving people grace alone won't bring them in, granted; turning a wild animal loose in your living room is not a good idea. But seeing Jesus at the moment of no condemnation sets people free. The goodness of God really does bring men to repentance.
Grace is Approval. If you have Grace, your approved! Faith is the ACCESS to Grace. So if someone doesn't have Faith then they don't have Grace since the way to Grace is by Faith. So what I'm trying to show you is that Christ alone is saved and only by being members of His body are we then saved and that not everyone now has received the righteousness that is in Christ.
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:32 AM
 
Location: New England
32,225 posts, read 21,111,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Grace is Approval. If you have Grace, your approved! Faith is the ACCESS to Grace. So if someone doesn't have Faith then they don't have Grace since the way to Grace is by Faith. So what I'm trying to show you is that Christ alone is saved and only by being members of His body are we then saved and that not everyone now has received the righteousness that is in Christ.
So the message of salvation is there's no need to sit In darkness, look outside the sun is shining, your free to go and enjoy it and you'll never sit in darkness again( go sin no more)

To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Last edited by pcamps; 10-05-2013 at 07:50 AM..
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Old 10-05-2013, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Grace is Approval.
No, not at all.

Grace is the revelation of Jesus Christ - I have no doubt. To simply approve of man's fallen state would be providing stimulate for further and continued destruction. The injection of God's presence to anyone - no matter how fallen or distant - is all they need. He is the faith, the hope, the answer to whatever void or hurt causes that person to feel secure in darkness.

And that is the reality, people feel secure where they are; a familiar place that hurts is better than trusting Another, but revealing who He is destroys the notion we have in our carnal minds of a god who is like man.

He is not like us at all.
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Old 10-05-2013, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
No, not at all.

Grace is the revelation of Jesus Christ - I have no doubt. To simply approve of man's fallen state would be providing stimulate for further and continued destruction. The injection of God's presence to anyone - no matter how fallen or distant - is all they need. He is the faith, the hope, the answer to whatever void or hurt causes that person to feel secure in darkness.

And that is the reality, people feel secure where they are; a familiar place that hurts is better than trusting Another, but revealing who He is destroys the notion we have in our carnal minds of a god who is like man.

He is not like us at all.
Look here:

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Don't you see here that Paul shows that Faith is the ACCESS to Grace? It isn't an approval of man's fallen state. Faith is the access to the Approval (Grace). If you have Faith you have received a gift from God.
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Old 10-05-2013, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,559 posts, read 11,897,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Yes, just as we are - but "in hope of the glory of God" means that change from our fallen state is coming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Don't you see here that Paul shows that Faith is the ACCESS to Grace? It isn't an approval of man's fallen state. Faith is the access to the Approval (Grace). If you have Faith you have received a gift from God.
I agree with everything there except the "approval" concept - approval of what? Our corruption?
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,817,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Yes, just as we are - but "in hope of the glory of God" means that change from our fallen state is coming.



I agree with everything there except the "approval" concept - approval of what? Our corruption?
His approval. Have you ever looked at the word Grace?

H2580
חן
chên
khane
From H2603; graciousness, that is, subjectively (kindness, favor) or objectively (beauty): - favour, grace (-ious), pleasant, precious, [well-] favoured.
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:52 PM
 
40,068 posts, read 26,744,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Also, faith leads to righteousness because what we focus on we become.
You are close, little elmer . . . but it is not faith in some beliefs ABOUT God and Christ that matters. Faith is simply a conviction that God exists. When you focus on "love of God and each other" daily and repent when you don't . . . THEN you become what you focus on. You need to love to feel loved.
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