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Old 10-05-2013, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Also, faith leads to righteousness because what we focus on we become.
If you don't look down the road, but look in the rear view, or the ditch, you'll end up in the ditch.

Is there or isn't there Grace?
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Old 10-05-2013, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Grace is Approval. If you have Grace, your approved! Faith is the ACCESS to Grace. So if someone doesn't have Faith then they don't have Grace since the way to Grace is by Faith. So what I'm trying to show you is that Christ alone is saved and only by being members of His body are we then saved and that not everyone now has received the righteousness that is in Christ.
And if you don't have works, you don't have faith.

So, you gotta conundrum as you worded it.
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Old 10-05-2013, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Yes, just as we are - but "in hope of the glory of God" means that change from our fallen state is coming.



I agree with everything there except the "approval" concept - approval of what? Our corruption?
ONCE you are His, you are no longer corrupted.

Try me on this. Start that thread.

Problem most folks have, is they are claiming they are HIS before scripture acknowledges they are, and THEN they gotta start scrambling.
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Old 10-06-2013, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,819,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
And if you don't have works, you don't have faith.

So, you gotta conundrum as you worded it.
It isn't how I worded it. It is how Paul worded it:

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
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Old 10-06-2013, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,559 posts, read 11,901,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
If you don't look down the road, but look in the rear view, or the ditch, you'll end up in the ditch.

Is there or isn't there Grace?
Absolutely - that's why the windshield is a lot bigger than the rear view mirror, we're not supposed to look at the past.

A little known lesson from the Old Covenant is that the priest was never to touch dead things, or he would be defiled. Now that we are priests (1 Pet 2:5), the dead thing in our lives is the past - it will certainly keep us from our destiny in Him if we're always feeling regret, playing the "what-if" game, etc.

A lesson I'm learning.

But yes, there is grace to help in time of need - hallelujah.
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Old 10-06-2013, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,559 posts, read 11,901,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
ONCE you are His, you are no longer corrupted.

Try me on this. Start that thread.

Problem most folks have, is they are claiming they are HIS before scripture acknowledges they are, and THEN they gotta start scrambling.
I'm about to head out for the day, so I really don't want to put together an OP but I will submit that we can abide in the Vine, or be in the flesh - all while being His child.

I firmly believe that.

There are times (more than not) when we are consumed with the cares of this world (on the job, caring for the kids, various social settings) and our hearts and minds are not stayed on Him. That's when negative judgment, fear, bitterness, etc. can come in and derail our path.

That's what I call "not abiding"; why, because God is I AM - right now - and our life in Him is present tense always. It's hard to explain, but we are healed (Isa 53), He's a present help (Psa 46), our daily bread is not for tomorrow (see manna references).

Abiding...you can't live off yesterday's inspiration, for His quickening is for the task at hand.
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Old 10-06-2013, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,819,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
I'm about to head out for the day, so I really don't want to put together an OP but I will submit that we can abide in the Vine, or be in the flesh - all while being His child.

I firmly believe that.

There are times (more than not) when we are consumed with the cares of this world (on the job, caring for the kids, various social settings) and our hearts and minds are not stayed on Him. That's when negative judgment, fear, bitterness, etc. can come in and derail our path.

That's what I call "not abiding"; why, because God is I AM - right now - and our life in Him is present tense always. It's hard to explain, but we are healed (Isa 53), He's a present help (Psa 46), our daily bread is not for tomorrow (see manna references).

Abiding...you can't live off yesterday's inspiration, for His quickening is for the task at hand.
So you don't believe there are children of the devil? Can someone serve two masters?
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Old 10-06-2013, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,503 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
It isn't how I worded it. It is how Paul worded it:

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Gal 5:6 the most important theological discussion of PAUL'S day wasn't important but faith working through love was.

If you don't have works you don't have faith. Albeit that is JAMES.

But Paul corroborates that Spiritual Maturity comes through works. Paul, Jesus, James, John all agree that love/agapao, comes with works.

John writes if you don't have agape, your claim to be saved is a damnable lie. If you aren't in Him and He isn't in you, then you don't have love, and lacking Him you are damned, not "saved" whatever that last word means.

So, you think Paul contradicts himself. I think his whole body of work is accurate.

You ignore some pieces, I fit them all together.

You are still left with the conundrum if you choose to face it or not.
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Old 10-06-2013, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,503 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
I'm about to head out for the day, so I really don't want to put together an OP but I will submit that we can abide in the Vine, or be in the flesh - all while being His child.

I firmly believe that.
Me too. Now what that means in scripture we should fight like bratty kids over, and it sounds like fun... :P

I'd mention, scripture says there is a time you are not in the flesh, while you walk on earth. Thank God for His strength.

Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
There are times (more than not) when we are consumed with the cares of this world (on the job, caring for the kids, various social settings) and our hearts and minds are not stayed on Him. That's when negative judgment, fear, bitterness, etc. can come in and derail our path.
There is a time, when this no longer happens, too. At Xian maturity, this won't be an event in your life anymore, at least in a way that is in conflict with God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
That's what I call "not abiding"; why, because God is I AM - right now - and our life in Him is present tense always. It's hard to explain, but we are healed (Isa 53), He's a present help (Psa 46), our daily bread is not for tomorrow (see manna references).

Abiding...you can't live off yesterday's inspiration, for His quickening is for the task at hand.
If you are game we can come back to it someday. I think it'll be a fun chat. I've been where you are, I get it. In my experience, there are a few things, I don't think You've ran through this ringer.
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Old 10-06-2013, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,503 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
So you don't believe there are children of the devil? Can someone serve two masters?
Is Children of the Devil a biblical thought????
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