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Old 10-07-2013, 08:03 PM
Status: "Living rent-free in Mr. Wade’s head" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
16,363 posts, read 8,905,753 times
Reputation: 1659

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torpedos View Post
That verse has nothing to do with repeating a prayer. In those days many folks professed the ceaser's to be lords, even when thy did not believe it. Paul was making sure that the believers were not approaching Jesus in that manner. If they bow before Christ, they must believe. That verse is not a formula for salvation. Paul never mentioned it to the other churches because they did not have the issues the Romans did.
While the words themselves are not magical, the action is neccesary.
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
8,401 posts, read 9,148,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by ET and UR....I'm not from outer space.

It's God's right to determine how many and who is in heaven. I don't have any right to complain if I see someone that I view as a "sinner" being there with me. If he wants to bring everyone....great. If not, that's his decision. But I do know that scripture clearly says that there will be some sinners cast into hell.
Oops! wrong answer. The ER folk wanted you to say that you would be extremely unhappy if God would reconcile everyone to Him. You are suppose to be gleefully desiring that all non-believers will all fry in hell.
Now that you know the "correct" answer you may thank me later.
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Whereever we have our RV parked
8,795 posts, read 7,712,915 times
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Actually there are a few different concepts of hell. Jesus talks about it being darkness. So some parts might be complete dark. That could be part of it also. Some wonder if there might be places that are extremely cold. That would cause considerable suffering also. I don't worry about it. God is just and His judgments are just. I put my trust in Him. Its not for me to decide.
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:18 PM
 
Location: New England
32,234 posts, read 21,119,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Here's what it says:

18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Think about what you are saying here. Jesus did not come in judgement but if you don't believe you are judged already of God, who sent his son not to judge. The only condemnation of man is what he puts upon himself.
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:26 PM
Status: "Living rent-free in Mr. Wade’s head" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
16,363 posts, read 8,905,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Think about what you are saying here. Jesus did not come in judgement but if you don't believe you are judged already of God, who sent his son not to judge. The only condemnation of man is what he puts upon himself.
No. Mankind is under condemnation because of sin. Romans 3:23. He remains there until he confesses Jesus as Savior.
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:27 PM
 
40,090 posts, read 26,755,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
While the words themselves are not magical, the action is neccesary.
Why is that, jimmie? What do the words DO?
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:47 PM
Status: "Living rent-free in Mr. Wade’s head" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
16,363 posts, read 8,905,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Why is that, jimmie? What do the words DO?
You keep trying to push the point of easy-believism. There is no such thing.

"Confess with your mouth, and believe in your heart..."

"For with the heart man believes unto righteouness".
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Old 10-07-2013, 09:43 PM
 
40,090 posts, read 26,755,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
You keep trying to push the point of easy-believism. There is no such thing.
"Confess with your mouth, and believe in your heart..."
"For with the heart man believes unto righteouness".
I am pushing nothing. I am trying to undertand precisely what you think is going on. If you believe in your heart (have the inner conviction) and it is manifest in your "love of God and each other" as seen in your "fruits" . . . are the words necessary? If so Why?
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Gettysburg, PA
1,618 posts, read 1,621,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
I disagree. I was raised to believe in eternal torment and did believe it (with my mind) but my heart could not accept it so it made me virtually dysfunctional throughout my young adulthood. In fact, I did believe it and wanted to be able to NOT BELIEVE it. But did not have the truth to set me free from the abominable teaching that pervades the majority of man-built religious institutions.
I wasn't talking about different interpretations of Scripture in what you quoted from my post in your response (which seems to be what you're talking about; though I gather that you perhaps may believe that some others are not actually interpretations of Scripture based on what you called "man-built religious institutions". I may not be reading what you are saying correctly though, so please correct me if I'm mistaken in that). I was talking about those people who basically say that since God is not able to be comprehended completely, He is not worth trying to understand at all (and that arrogance is at the root of it, though some other things can be such as practicality, or what someone views as practicality).

My heart does not accept eternal torment. I feel I made that quite clear in my post. Nevertheless, I do not believe in things just because they are comfortable to me or because they align with how I feel things should be. If thousands of people are massacred one day in a distant city, I may not want to believe it, but I nonetheless will not refuse to believe it is true just because it is horrifying to me.

The heart is also deceptive. I suppose it must be a hard thing to know if what someone understands is from the heart or from the Spirit. I'm not sure if there is any way to tell the difference, really. That is why I must base my beliefs solely on Scripture, on interpretation which takes the whole of it into consideration.

It is definitely quite apparent to me that the Bible is open to a multitude of interpretations. Eternal torment (which in my mind means "eternal separation from God"), effectual calling, predestination, etc. are all things which are harsh and are what I gather to be generally thought of as negative ideas of God (from an human's perspective). Yet to me, it's the only thing that makes sense. And it was the only faith which brought me to belief; the humanistic God wasn't one which I was given the ability to believe in. For some reason, God wants me to believe in Him in this way and as I mentioned, I do not wish to dishonor Him in this.
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:22 AM
 
Location: New England
32,234 posts, read 21,119,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
No. Mankind is under condemnation because of sin. Romans 3:23. He remains there until he confesses Jesus as Savior.
As I clearly pointed it out the condemnation is not from God.
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