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I'm not sure what you mean by ET and UR....I'm not from outer space.
It's God's right to determine how many and who is in heaven. I don't have any right to complain if I see someone that I view as a "sinner" being there with me. If he wants to bring everyone....great. If not, that's his decision. But I do know that scripture clearly says that there will be some sinners cast into hell.
You don't know what the term ETer means on this forum? It means eternal torment. The person elegiac says God will literally burn with a real flame the people who did not make the choice. Even if they were not given the choice they will be burned. But not burned up. It is actually an enigma how it happens. I thought you knew what ETer meant. Sorry.
I think that you and I will get what we deserve. Reward or punishment?? Who knows what is really "good" and what is "Bad"? Is spanking a child good or bad? Is "spare the rod" a good Christian concept?
My mother was a "Good " woman but I would rather burn in hell than have to listen to her run her mouth for Eternity. Will her character change? If not, heaven would be hell for a lot of people.
I don't know what I would do, it's unimaginable to me that the one who created us and gave us life and the ability to do evil would torture us for that, especially since we have such little control over any aspect of our life, including our mental faculties, the way we react, etc. He had 'eternity' to finish us and make us right. As for annhilation, that would seem more lenient on those who acted more wickedly than those who think they do good, but what effect does that have upon the mothers or siblings of those persons who loved them? It isn't right to do a lobotomy on what made up much of our earthly life if that life is supposedly what we are judged on. If I can love a child who is capable of evil, and my love is not perfect, I can't imagine a creator who could not only turn his back on one of His but allow him to survive in endless misery. It just does not compute. He created us to be the recipient of His love, not for someone to love Him, once we realize the full measure of His love, it will heal everyone. That's my opinion
For ETers: if you see that there is no hell and the bad people have come to an understanding and are there is heaven with you. Or if the bad people are just annihilated . No hell? Would you be mad that people are not burning?
For URers: if you see that not all were saved and some were annihilated, or that there is a hell and bad people are actually burning up?
I , for one, you'll be upset to see people burn and not by my side. To think that what Jesus did was not enough to save hitler would make me sad.
So would you be upset, disappointed , mad, angry. Etc.
Don't complicate the thread. Just answer and give a small comment.
These questions remind me of Americans that swear Obama is black and Latin Americans that regard Obama as mulatto.
What if "I felt" Jesus wasn't God, and marriage was not sacramental, would that make it so?
If I enter hell, I'm told (not what "I feel" like being true), I'll be in suffering more unbearable than the worst suffering on earth, I will hate, be surrounded by hate, be consumed by that hate, and be in a perpetual state of remorse.
If I enter purgatory, I'm told (not what "I feel" like being true), I'll be in suffering, for a temporary period unknown, but not in the suffering of hell, I will have hope because everyone that enters purgatory will enter heaven. The prayers of those on earth can help reduce my time in purgation.
If I enter heaven, I'm told (not what "I feel" like being true), I'll be in bliss, at peace, happy, and my will will be in communion with God's will, so, whatever God wills I will will, meaning I'm told, I won't care about those suffering damned in hell.
I've done a lot of sinning, so, I would be overjoyed with the greatest sinners on earth being in heaven, why? Because that means odds are extraordinarily good I can do just about whatever I want and get into heaven. I don't even have to worry about my past sins, I don't have to repent.
It's pretty simple. Like legalized abortion. If abortion is legal I can abort my child without having to face incarceration in prison. If gay marriage is legalized I can get married to a man and find this normalized too.
I find the whole conception that if abortion is legal: no woman will have an abortion because she looooooooves God, or that if gay marriage is legal no gay people will marry or carry on in their homosexuality because they loooooooove God, just asinine.
With no punishment few people care. Period.
What do you think better reduces homosexual activity, a real known threat of eternal damnation in hell, or the real known lack of hell or the know fact homosexuality is no sin that can damn you to hell?
You think I like STD's, prison, and hell? I wish none of those things existed. And I would be overjoyed to find out that as a fact or reality adultery, homosexuality, promiscuity, polygamy, pimping, S&M, shooting people in the face, won't get you damned to hell. I'd be overjoyed!
I would certainly have attractive transsexual girlfriends, pay for hookers if I so desired, with no worry about my soul, do all the S&M stuff, maybe convert to Islam or Mormonism and get 4 to 10 wives, and I wouldn't worry about hell if I so desired to shoot 1, 2, or 1,000 people in the faces for jaw jacking or looking at me in away I didn't like.
Either HIV exists as a virus or it does not. Has nothing to do with what "I want to feel is true."
Either eternal damnation in hell exists or it does not. Has nothing to do with what "I want to feel is true."
I can treat HIV with doubt, that it's a religious hoax meant to "control me," just like I can treat eternal damnation in hell with doubt. The stakes are kind of high if I live in such a way doubting either of those things and I discover personally that I'm wrong.
Belief in either--even if I find out I'm wrong--comes with a smaller price. So, I got "controlled" by only screwing my wife, rather than also butt screwing 30 transsexual prostitutes over the course of 30 years.
You don't know what the term ETer means on this forum? It means eternal torment. The person elegiac says God will literally burn with a real flame the people who did not make the choice. Even if they were not given the choice they will be burned. But not burned up. It is actually an enigma how it happens. I thought you knew what ETer meant. Sorry.
Would I be upset if there is a hell where any people were burning up for eternity? More like horrified, and terrified of a being who would command and/or allow it. And I'm not sure why anyone thinks that if this were the case, it wouldn't be themselves burning. Because you read something in a book that you think will keep you safe from such a demented being?
And maybe you will think I am complicating the thread, Torpedos, but I take issue withe the term "bad people", as if they are a separate class of people. If something has to be annihilated, it's the "bad" within each of us.
Amen! I could not abide being in the presence of such a demented being who created such a place for ANY purpose, Pleroo. fortunately, I KNOW there is no such being. You are correct . . . none of us are all bad or all good. The good fruit is harvested . . . the bad is discarded as dross.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
The greatest "enemy" any of us has is no one outside of ourselves; it is the one within us that keeps us feeling separated from God and from each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
True.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
"If you want to destroy your enemy, make them your friend."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torpedos
I sure believe that at the end of the ages we all will be shocked.
All true. If you are not trying to "love God and each other" daily and repent when you don't . . . you are not living life fully . . . you are living life carnally. This carnal world has only very temporary positives and a lot of permanent negatives.
I don't know what I would do, it's unimaginable to me that the one who created us and gave us life and the ability to do evil would torture us for that, especially since we have such little control over any aspect of our life, including our mental faculties, the way we react, etc. He had 'eternity' to finish us and make us right. As for annhilation, that would seem more lenient on those who acted more wickedly than those who think they do good, but what effect does that have upon the mothers or siblings of those persons who loved them? It isn't right to do a lobotomy on what made up much of our earthly life if that life is supposedly what we are judged on. If I can love a child who is capable of evil, and my love is not perfect, I can't imagine a creator who could not only turn his back on one of His but allow him to survive in endless misery. It just does not compute. He created us to be the recipient of His love, not for someone to love Him, once we realize the full measure of His love, it will heal everyone. That's my opinion
I believe it is more than an opinion, as the Spirit testifies to our Spirit.
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These questions remind me of Americans that swear Obama is black and Latin Americans that regard Obama as mulatto.
