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Old 10-05-2013, 09:20 AM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,656,082 times
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Isaiah 22:14 "The LORD of hosts has revealed himself in my ears: “Surely this iniquity will not be atoned for you until you die,” says the Lord GOD of hosts."

1 Sam 3:14 "Therefore I swear to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by
sacrifice or offering forever.”


What say you, Universalists? These verses clearly state that there will be some that will not be forgiven.
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Old 10-05-2013, 09:26 AM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,244,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Isaiah 22:14 "The LORD of hosts has revealed himself in my ears: “Surely this iniquity will not be atoned for you until you die,” says the Lord GOD of hosts."

1 Sam 3:14 "Therefore I swear to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by
sacrifice or offering forever.”


What say you, Universalists? These verses clearly state that there will be some that will not be forgiven.
Nice cherry-picking out of context.
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Old 10-05-2013, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Somerset, Kentucky
473 posts, read 617,211 times
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That's not true Vizio,
To die in Christ is gain. EVERY knee and tongue. He will cause this to happen and lose none--why? Because He is God/Love.
Some might have to be put on His left as tails--receiving end of love and some on His right as heads---giving side of Love. But love is perfected in forgiveness with charity. None can do charity like Him.

Yeshua Bless You
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Old 10-05-2013, 09:33 AM
 
Location: USA
15,906 posts, read 8,190,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Isaiah 22:14 "The LORD of hosts has revealed himself in my ears: “Surely this iniquity will not be atoned for you until you die,” says the Lord GOD of hosts."

1 Sam 3:14 "Therefore I swear to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by
sacrifice or offering forever.”


What say you, Universalists? These verses clearly state that there will be some that will not be forgiven.

... "until they die", according to Isaiah 22:14. What say you to that? Apparently either at death or after death, sins can be atoned for.

As far as 1 Sam 3:14, you know full well the issue with the words translated as "forever" in the bible (olam in the old testament). It's not an accurate translation, as it has to do with time/ages, not eternity. Even if it were, according to this passage it says their iniquity won't be atoned for by sacrifice or offering. Thank goodness God is a God of mercy who doesn't require sacrifice OR offering in order to be able to forgive. And atonement is different than forgiveness, anyway, as I see it. It has to do with relationship being restored. Killing an animal to supposedly cover up your sin is not the equivalent of atonement.
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Old 10-05-2013, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,824,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Isaiah 22:14 "The LORD of hosts has revealed himself in my ears: “Surely this iniquity will not be atoned for you until you die,” says the Lord GOD of hosts."

1 Sam 3:14 "Therefore I swear to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by
sacrifice or offering forever.”


What say you, Universalists? These verses clearly state that there will be some that will not be forgiven.
Isa 22:14 And these things are revealed in the ears of the Lord of hosts: for this sin shall not be forgiven you, until ye die.

That verse seems to support universalism. Here is showing that the forgiveness comes after death.



1 Sam 3:14 shows that the iniquity would not be forgiven for until the end of the age:

1Sa 3:14 ωμοσαV-AAI-1S τωG3588 T-DSM οικωG3624 N-DSM ηλιG2241 N-PRI ειG1487 PRT εξιλασθησεταιV-FPI-3S αδικιαG93 N-NSF οικουG3624 N-GSM ηλιG2241 N-PRI ενG1722 PREP θυμιαματιG2368 N-DSN καιG2532 CONJ ενG1722 PREP θυσιαιςG2378 N-DPF εωςG2193 PREP αιωνοςG165 N-GSM
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:41 AM
 
9,888 posts, read 6,758,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Isaiah 22:14 "The LORD of hosts has revealed himself in my ears: “Surely this iniquity will not be atoned for you until you die,” says the Lord GOD of hosts."

1 Sam 3:14 "Therefore I swear to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by
sacrifice or offering forever.”


What say you, Universalists? These verses clearly state that there will be some that will not be forgiven.
According to the RCC Christ offers salvation to ALL whether inside or outside the church. A person has to willingly turn away to avoid salvation.
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Old 10-05-2013, 03:09 PM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,656,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Isa 22:14 And these things are revealed in the ears of the Lord of hosts: for this sin shall not be forgiven you, until ye die.

That verse seems to support universalism. Here is showing that the forgiveness comes after death.



1 Sam 3:14 shows that the iniquity would not be forgiven for until the end of the age:

1Sa 3:14 ωμοσαV-AAI-1S τωG3588 T-DSM οικωG3624 N-DSM ηλιG2241 N-PRI ειG1487 PRT εξιλασθησεταιV-FPI-3S αδικιαG93 N-NSF οικουG3624 N-GSM ηλιG2241 N-PRI ενG1722 PREP θυμιαματιG2368 N-DSN καιG2532 CONJ ενG1722 PREP θυσιαιςG2378 N-DPF εωςG2193 PREP αιωνοςG165 N-GSM
That's a lot of twisting to come to those answers.
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Old 10-05-2013, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,824,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
That's a lot of twisting to come to those answers.
Really? - quoted the verses and showed the Greek translation showing that G165 is used which means age.
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Old 10-05-2013, 03:17 PM
 
40,177 posts, read 26,806,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
... "until they die", according to Isaiah 22:14. What say you to that? Apparently either at death or after death, sins can be atoned for.

As far as 1 Sam 3:14, you know full well the issue with the words translated as "forever" in the bible (olam in the old testament). It's not an accurate translation, as it has to do with time/ages, not eternity. Even if it were, according to this passage it says their iniquity won't be atoned for by sacrifice or offering. Thank goodness God is a God of mercy who doesn't require sacrifice OR offering in order to be able to forgive. And atonement is different than forgiveness, anyway, as I see it. It has to do with relationship being restored. Killing an animal to supposedly cover up your sin is not the equivalent of atonement.
Amen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Isa 22:14 And these things are revealed in the ears of the Lord of hosts: for this sin shall not be forgiven you, until ye die.
That verse seems to support universalism. Here is showing that the forgiveness comes after death.
1 Sam 3:14 shows that the iniquity would not be forgiven for until the end of the age:

1Sa 3:14 ωμοσαV-AAI-1S τωG3588 T-DSM οικωG3624 N-DSM ηλιG2241 N-PRI ειG1487 PRT εξιλασθησεταιV-FPI-3S αδικιαG93 N-NSF οικουG3624 N-GSM ηλιG2241 N-PRI ενG1722 PREP θυμιαματιG2368 N-DSN καιG2532 CONJ ενG1722 PREP θυσιαιςG2378 N-DPF εωςG2193 PREP αιωνοςG165 N-GSM
Amen! You guys are making my posting here unnecessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
That's a lot of twisting to come to those answers.
Not twisting, Vizio . . . intelligent and informed interpretation using the context of a loving God that Christ revealed unambiguously. As long as you retain the context of a jealous, vengeful War God who needs to be appeased by blood sacrifice . . . you will not understand the scriptures. You are using the wrong beliefs about God to perpetuate a corruption of Christ's Gospel.
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Old 10-05-2013, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
2,435 posts, read 2,849,772 times
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As far as I understand non-forgiveness, it was the First-century Jewish religious leaders who maliciously opposed Jesus Christ who sinned against the holy spirit. They saw God’s spirit at work in Jesus as he performed miracles that honored Jehovah. Yet, these enemies of Christ attributed this power to Satan the Devil. According to Jesus, those who thus blasphemed against God’s holy spirit were thereby committing a sin that would not be forgiven in the present "system of things nor in that to come."—Matthew 12:22-32.

Blasphemy is defamatory, injurious, or abusive speech. Since the holy spirit has God as its Source, saying things against his spirit is the same as speaking against God Himself. Unrepentantly resorting to speech of that kind is unforgivable. Jesus’ words about such sin show that Jesus is referring to those who willfully oppose the operation of God’s holy spirit. Because Jehovah’s spirit was at work in Jesus but his opposers ascribed this power to the Devil, they sinfully blasphemed against the spirit. Hence, Jesus declared: "Whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit has no forgiveness forever, but is guilty of everlasting sin."—Mark 3:20-29.

Consider also the case of Judas Iscariot. He pursued a dishonest course, stealing from the money box entrusted to his care. (John 12:5,6) Judas later went to the Jewish rulers and arranged to betray Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. Yes, Judas felt remorse after the betrayal, but he never repented of his deliberate sin. Consequently, Judas is not worthy of a resurrection. Jesus therefore called him "the son of destruction."—John 17:12; Matthew 26:14-16.
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