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Old 10-06-2013, 12:03 AM
 
146 posts, read 142,014 times
Reputation: 51

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They do not DO the things Jesus taught.

Look!

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. James 1:22

Each sin brings them into more deception.

This doctrine one need not DO Gods will is deceiving multitudes into deception.
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Old 10-06-2013, 12:42 AM
 
21,870 posts, read 16,702,058 times
Reputation: 8687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
They do not DO the things Jesus taught.

Look!

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. James 1:22

Each sin brings them into more deception.

This doctrine one need not DO Gods will is deceiving multitudes into deception.
Who has ever said that one need not do God's will?

God's will for the unbeliever is to believe on Christ so that he may have eternal life (Acts 16:31). If the unbeliever disobeys that command he will spend eternity future in the lake of fire.

God's will for the believer is to grow to spiritual maturity. That necessitates being obedient to God's will to grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (2 Peter 3:18). If the believer fails to obey that command he will incur divine discipline in time and miss out on eternal rewards, but he will still be eternally saved.

It is to one's advantage to obey God.
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Old 10-06-2013, 02:08 AM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,431 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Who has ever said that one need not do God's will?
You are about to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
God's will for the unbeliever is to believe on Christ so that he may have eternal life (Acts 16:31). If the unbeliever disobeys that command he will spend eternity future in the lake of fire.
If you don't have works, your claim to belief is about as valuable as a cloud of cow flatulance. You deceive yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
God's will for the believer is to grow to spiritual maturity.
That happens through works, according to the Bible. UNLESS we are editing that part out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
That necessitates being obedient to God's will to grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (2 Peter 3:18).
Scripture says POINT BLANK that it's not your doing for obedience but His.
Yes, I know what you are itching to say, before you ask, answer me this..... Who parted the red sea? God?? Moses????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If the believer fails to obey that command he will incur divine discipline in time and miss out on eternal rewards, but he will still be eternally saved.

It is to one's advantage to obey God.
If that's all he obeys, like you present here, you send him straight to Hell as he'll never know God, not be in fellowship with God, and be living a lie.

Mike, I'm not "coming at you" in spite of my direct talk.

But every line I've said is the truth. I'll wait to show all the scripture til I see if you are going to freak out (as most usually do) or discuss it. It seems most of the time, people that make the claims you just made, get emotional, not rational.

Signed,

Hoping to be surprised...
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Old 10-06-2013, 04:14 AM
 
8,105 posts, read 7,075,695 times
Reputation: 1433
Only a margin of Christians may have poor development , and not all Christians are deceived , but some do not receive the grace of God to grow , ............Then there are some who have not even received Jesus Spirit into their lives , and need to repent and turn to Christ in obedient to Jesus commands again to receive this time ..............Some may have poor churches who leaders are in lack and were there may be a form of godliness but lack any power of God .............. Then there may be some who do not wait of the Lord and take the impatient fast food approach to God , where the faith in God can be impossible to develop and just give up on believing Jesus promises.................Some may not know or hear the Bible and with lack of Holy spirit find it hard to remember scripture and true meaning..................... Then some may have no fear of God and disobey the commandment of God , as they may lack discernment of the spiritual authority in their path .................... Some may take the logic of world experience and reason then into the strange character of God , in turn watering grace down , as God ways are still higher then world experiences because the art of knowing Gods ways and receive grace by being doer of God will,...................Instead of knowing the art of philosophy which will be dry of God grace , as you cannot mix the two together ......................... Then there are many Christians who do the will of God and receive and know God , and have been cleansed of the sins of the world and Jesus claims them saved , as Jesus will also claim poorly developed Christians as cleansed and saved , and still others who became displaced or have compromised the faith , Jesus still promises to revisit them if the call of God is received again and again
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Old 10-06-2013, 09:47 AM
 
21,870 posts, read 16,702,058 times
Reputation: 8687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post


If you don't have works, your claim to belief is about as valuable as a cloud of cow flatulance. You deceive yourself.
Judgmental Legalism.

Quote:
That happens through works, according to the Bible. UNLESS we are editing that part out.
Spiritual growth is the result of learning and applying the word of God. Works are a result of spiritual growth. Not the means of producing it.


Quote:
Scripture says POINT BLANK that it's not your doing for obedience but His.
Yes, I know what you are itching to say, before you ask, answer me this..... Who parted the red sea? God?? Moses????
Each believer must make personal decisions to obey the commands of God. The believer must make the decision to learn and apply Bible doctrine. When he does so, the Holy Spirit produces spiritual growth in the believer.

Quote:
If that's all he obeys, like you present here, you send him straight to Hell as he'll never know God, not be in fellowship with God, and be living a lie.
If the believer is growing in grace and in the knowledge our Lord and Savior as per 2 Peter 3:18 he will, as he grows spiritually, be more and more obedient to God's commands for the believer.
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:15 AM
 
Location: california
5,658 posts, read 4,884,202 times
Reputation: 6682
Often those that are cultured in leadership, Jesus did not establish; circumvent and distort Gods design .
If one is falsely calling Jesus lord, and by lifestyle prefer to obey Paul , or any other man, the conflict is obvious.
Paul sets aside the old testament law to establish his own laws , give me a break.
Jesus plainly said do not be called master or teacher or father . Why can't you obey that?
God would teach, but you must repent.
Whom is it you are trying to satisfy?
self ?
other men?
those are empty worm holes.
Knowing all the scriptures isn't going to matter in the end , God is going to choose those that love and obey Him, real time .
Jesus said , "blessed are they that DO hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled."
More is gained on your knees, than in the book.
The early church did not have any bible period, nor could many of them even read for that matter, Only Jesus and the Holy Spirit to teach them God's will . 1John 2;27
Substituting the knowledge of the bible in place of a relationship, is WRONG .
Worshipping things, in place of God, is WRONG
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Old 10-06-2013, 11:02 AM
 
21,870 posts, read 16,702,058 times
Reputation: 8687
Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
Often those that are cultured in leadership, Jesus did not establish; circumvent and distort Gods design .
If one is falsely calling Jesus lord, and by lifestyle prefer to obey Paul , or any other man, the conflict is obvious.
Paul sets aside the old testament law to establish his own laws , give me a break.
Jesus plainly said do not be called master or teacher or father . Why can't you obey that?
God would teach, but you must repent.
Whom is it you are trying to satisfy?
self ?
other men?
those are empty worm holes.
Knowing all the scriptures isn't going to matter in the end , God is going to choose those that love and obey Him, real time .
Jesus said , "blessed are they that DO hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled."
More is gained on your knees, than in the book.
The early church did not have any bible period, nor could many of them even read for that matter, Only Jesus and the Holy Spirit to teach them God's will . 1John 2;27
Substituting the knowledge of the bible in place of a relationship, is WRONG .
Worshipping things, in place of God, is WRONG
There is no conflict between Paul's teachings and Jesus' teachings. And it is deception to promote the idea that there is. The apostle Peter acknowledged that Paul's letters were Scripture, and that the untaught and unstable distort his teachings (2 Peter 3:16) just as you are doing.

It is through learning and applying the Word of God that spiritual growth is produced in the believer and that he grows in his relationship with God.
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Old 10-06-2013, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,431 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Judgmental Legalism.
Bigoted fear driven response. It's straight scripture. Want the scripture? Do you feel like Editing God's word today? I'm not that holy. I get my theology to fit in the Bible, not try to cram my Bible into my faith making a new buybull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
J
Spiritual growth is the result of learning and applying the word of God. Works are a result of spiritual growth. Not the means of producing it.
So you took Paul out of the Bible. Shudda told me that up front I could have saved us some time. I believe PAUL is one of the primary contributors to the Bible. IF you think Paul has a home in the bible as an inspired author, then you just dropped unprocessed bull fertilizer on what he taught.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
J
Each believer must make personal decisions to obey the commands of God.
Scripture says the Spirit of God keeps you from sinning, I.E. obey the commands. Again it's Paul, and a little bit of John, but more clearly Paul.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
J
The believer must make the decision to learn and apply Bible doctrine. When he does so, the Holy Spirit produces spiritual growth in the believer.
AND scripture says, point blank, undeniably, that that knowledge and learning comes through works. NOT ONLY THAT but works led by the CHURCH leaders, not what the person may THINK The Spirit of ANTI CHRIST described as the Spirit of God may tell them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
JIf the believer is growing in grace and in the knowledge our Lord and Savior as per 2 Peter 3:18 he will, as he grows spiritually, be more and more obedient to God's commands for the believer.
If he's growing in grace and knowledge of our LORD that means he listened to Paul and not you and did the works He was saved to do.

I didn't waste my time to give the scripture here, but I'm itching to have someone actually consider it and read it. In my experience, trying to tell someone with your views those scriptures and expect them to actually consider them rather than attacking them is about the same as trying to get a Gay, Liberal, Woman, with one black parent and one jewish parent, to play on the KKK's softball team.
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Old 10-06-2013, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
304 posts, read 247,431 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
Often those that are cultured in leadership, Jesus did not establish; circumvent and distort Gods design .
If one is falsely calling Jesus lord, and by lifestyle prefer to obey Paul , or any other man, the conflict is obvious.
The only conflict is between your left and right temples. There is nothing Paul teaches that contradicts XChrist's teachings. There is ONLY someone being too lazy to study the two until he can figure out how they fit together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
Paul sets aside the old testament law to establish his own laws , give me a break.
Well, Prophecy, Christ, and the other Apostles agree with him. Are you sure that the only break here isn't with you??? (pointing to your skull)

Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
Jesus plainly said do not be called master or teacher or father . Why can't you obey that?
And yet, it happened all through the NT, not just with Paul. Consider the first time, CHRIST HIMSELF appointed the APOSTLES TO BE TEACHERS/RABBIS/FATHERS. and yes, that IS the meaning of the word, lookit up. CHRIST appoitned people to be what you said HE said couldn't be happening. So, who do we believe, Christ, or you telling us what Christ meant?



Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
God would teach, but you must repent.
Whom is it you are trying to satisfy?
Good thing it's not you, you are trying to tell people to NOT TRUST Christ's plan. That's evil when you get down to it, by definition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
self ?
other men?
those are empty worm holes.
Knowing all the scriptures isn't going to matter in the end , God is going to choose those that love and obey Him, real time .
WE AGREE HERE YAYYY!!!!!!!! and if you love Him, you'll be doing His works. If you aren't, then you do not yet love Him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
Jesus said , "blessed are they that DO hunger and thirst after righteousness for they shall be filled."
More is gained on your knees, than in the book.
RighteousNESS is by defnition an act of Righteous charity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh View Post
The early church did not have any bible period, nor could many of them even read for that matter, Only Jesus and the Holy Spirit to teach them God's will . 1John 2;27
This makes me angry. It's a flat out lie. It's such an obvious lie, I don't know if you are doing it deliberately, or out of ignorance. Where do you get yoru information the early church didn't have bible teachings? Peter commented on Paul's letters going to the whole of the Church. CLement, the Bishop of Rome, who traveled with/for Paul, and was in Rome at the time of Paul AND Peter, showed it to be a lie to in how he described the church to be established.,

Look, I can take my position, and show it in scripture. Show it in one of the first leaders of the Post Apostles leadership, who, however, was in "power" or "authority" during the life of the last living Apostle. And show it to be continued after that. I have a continued example, you have one that is your own. If they were Brandy, I'd win, because mine is older.
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Old 10-06-2013, 02:32 PM
 
21,870 posts, read 16,702,058 times
Reputation: 8687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Catalyst View Post
Bigoted fear driven response. It's straight scripture. Want the scripture? Do you feel like Editing God's word today? I'm not that holy. I get my theology to fit in the Bible, not try to cram my Bible into my faith making a new buybull.



So you took Paul out of the Bible. Shudda told me that up front I could have saved us some time. I believe PAUL is one of the primary contributors to the Bible. IF you think Paul has a home in the bible as an inspired author, then you just dropped unprocessed bull fertilizer on what he taught.



Scripture says the Spirit of God keeps you from sinning, I.E. obey the commands. Again it's Paul, and a little bit of John, but more clearly Paul.



AND scripture says, point blank, undeniably, that that knowledge and learning comes through works. NOT ONLY THAT but works led by the CHURCH leaders, not what the person may THINK The Spirit of ANTI CHRIST described as the Spirit of God may tell them.



If he's growing in grace and knowledge of our LORD that means he listened to Paul and not you and did the works He was saved to do.

I didn't waste my time to give the scripture here, but I'm itching to have someone actually consider it and read it. In my experience, trying to tell someone with your views those scriptures and expect them to actually consider them rather than attacking them is about the same as trying to get a Gay, Liberal, Woman, with one black parent and one jewish parent, to play on the KKK's softball team.
I've already had this discussion with you on another thread and will not take the time to do it again. If a believer has works acceptable to God he will be rewarded for them. If not he will lose reward, but he himself is eternally saved (1 Cor. 3:12-15). You promote legalism and do not understand grace.

And I did not take Paul out of the Bible. You are thinking of the other poster apparently.

Furthermore, until you learn to post in a more mature and less antagonistic manner then you've done in many of your posts, I am not inclined to even bother with you.

Last edited by Mike555; 10-06-2013 at 02:57 PM..
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