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Old 10-07-2013, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,559 posts, read 11,920,103 times
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All things are of God, He's the source. Without Him, we can do nothing. Each man is given a measure of faith; we are saved by grace through faith...and it's not of ourselves.

It's a gift of God.
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Old 10-07-2013, 03:11 PM
 
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God Parted the red sea.
There is nothing we can do to gain our own salvation. BUT to be saved we must believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, and that he died and rose again to save us from our sins. God saves us. We CANNOT save ourselves.
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Old 10-07-2013, 04:06 PM
 
40,276 posts, read 26,858,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenninindy View Post
Well then how do you explain what happened to St. Paul when he was struck down on the road to Damascus? He was on his way to killing more Christians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by romans519 View Post
Salvation was accomplished for you by Jesus. When you choose to believe in Jesus, God gives you a new heart and you are born again. This is something God does to you, after making a choice. Our part is only to choose to believe or not in what Jesus has already done for us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FundamentalBibleBeliever
You don't believe Paul accepted Jesus as the Christ at that point? I believe he did and he showed it by faith which we see from his doing what Jesus told him to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenninindy View Post
At that point yes. But Before Jesus appeared to Paul, he was well-known as a persecutor of Christians. So, sometimes things happen to us outside of personal choice.
This is the consequence of attaching church membership and belief in specific church "precepts and doctrines of men" as the way to salvation. This creates church membership . . . but it flies in the face of the fact that Christ DID it all. We have NOTHING to do with our salvation . . . NOTHING!. It matters not one whit which church we belong to, which set of beliefs ABOUT Christ we claim to believe, or anything else created by the vanity and hubris of religions. The phrase "pisteuo eis" does NOT mean "believe IN" a bunch of "precepts and doctrines of men" ABOUT Christ. It means to have the inner conviction ("believe ON/INTO" Him) to follow Him and His instructions to "love God and each other" daily and repent when you don't, period. Everything else is human vanity and hubris elevating human theology by twisting ancient ignorance and superstition above the revelations of the true nature of God by the example and teachings of Christ. I was an atheist for 30+ years. I did NOT choose to believe or accept ANYTHING about God on my own. My atheism was instantly erased by my encounter in deep meditation, period. I had nothing to do with it. I spent the next 40+ years studying and learning to explain it to my intellect and then choosing what to accept. The idea that it is a choice WE make is an invention of the churches to build membership. No one chooses what they truly believe, period.
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Old 10-07-2013, 05:13 PM
 
225 posts, read 402,568 times
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Mystic PhD; You simply cannot discount all of the awesome favors God does for true believers once they make a choice to believe in the truth of Christ on their own though. It has been said, blessed are they that do not see, yet still believe.

Last edited by glenninindy; 10-07-2013 at 05:36 PM..
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Old 10-08-2013, 04:24 AM
 
Location: Clanton, AL
668 posts, read 571,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
This is the consequence of attaching church membership and belief in specific church "precepts and doctrines of men" as the way to salvation. This creates church membership . . . but it flies in the face of the fact that Christ DID it all. We have NOTHING to do with our salvation . . . NOTHING!. It matters not one whit which church we belong to, which set of beliefs ABOUT Christ we claim to believe, or anything else created by the vanity and hubris of religions. The phrase "pisteuo eis" does NOT mean "believe IN" a bunch of "precepts and doctrines of men" ABOUT Christ. It means to have the inner conviction ("believe ON/INTO" Him) to follow Him and His instructions to "love God and each other" daily and repent when you don't, period. Everything else is human vanity and hubris elevating human theology by twisting ancient ignorance and superstition above the revelations of the true nature of God by the example and teachings of Christ. I was an atheist for 30+ years. I did NOT choose to believe or accept ANYTHING about God on my own. My atheism was instantly erased by my encounter in deep meditation, period. I had nothing to do with it. I spent the next 40+ years studying and learning to explain it to my intellect and then choosing what to accept. The idea that it is a choice WE make is an invention of the churches to build membership. No one chooses what they truly believe, period.
You are the first one to say anything about "church membership". It's a nice try to set up a strawman and attack it but it has nothing to do with what is being said.

In such situation when I find myself with no idea what's going on I have found it best to keep silent so others do not see my ignorance and lack of understanding.
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:09 AM
 
6,822 posts, read 5,170,603 times
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[quote=FundamentalBibleBeliever;31721133

In such situation when I find myself with no idea what's going on I have found it best to keep silent so others do not see my ignorance and lack of understanding. [/quote]


This is a big topic, and one that divides believers. I've been doing more research into the Arminian/Calvanist perspective. I think both sides are a bit skewed in their interpretations of definitions but mean well.

For example "Total Depravity". I just had a discussion regarding this with one of the elders at my fellowship. He holds to a Calvanist understanding as we know it. He started at Romans 3 that "none seek after God" (paraphrase).

I think it's clear that without God we ARE absolutely TOTALLY DEPRAVED and do not seek God on our own, but I do not think that the lost man is always entirely WITHOUT God. I believe that the unregenerate individual DOES have God through His Grace calling to Him to respond to the gospel through His Spirit, Word, and Servants. I suggest evidence for this in Romans 1, when it talks about those that "God GIVES UP to vile affections".. I interpret this as God as stopped intervening in their lives. Natural Man is left alone on their course to destruction, which is a SAD state of affair..

But God can intervene in one's life (as we see with Paul). I personally believe there were times God was reaching out to me prior to being saved. I'd have a desire to study God's Word, but I would not come to the light. Why? In John 3 it states that "they loved darkness rather than light". I knew God's Word would require CHANGE in life and who was in charge.

John 3 says the condemnation is that light HAS COME INTO THE WORLD, but MEN loved darkness rather than light. I believe on judgment day we will see the numerous times God gave us to respond to His goodness and love on Calvary, but WE rejected..

I believe Man has a RESPONSIBILITY to respond to God's goodness AND that they have that CAPABILITY THROUGH GOD'S GRACE. I believe God is calling all Men to Salvation through His Word and His Spirit, but we can get to a point where God can leave us to our own self destruction thus we ARE "Totally Deprived".

Saved by God's Grace through Faith ALONE, not of merit or human works at all. Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

2 THess 2 states "because they RECEIVED NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH THAT THEY SHOULD BE SAVE THEY SHALL BELIEVE A LIE". (paraphrase..)

I do believe there is a responsibility and capability on the end of Man. No one on their own seeks God, but God in His love seeks the sinner. We just have to reach out to Him who has his hand reached out to us.

Last edited by Mikelee81; 10-08-2013 at 08:20 AM..
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:52 PM
 
40,276 posts, read 26,858,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FundamentalBibleBeliever View Post
You are the first one to say anything about "church membership". It's a nice try to set up a strawman and attack it but it has nothing to do with what is being said.
In such situation when I find myself with no idea what's going on I have found it best to keep silent so others do not see my ignorance and lack of understanding.
The lack of understanding and ignorance revealed here happens to be about the reason the emphasis has been on WHAT you believe ABOUT Christ and NOT about following Christ's instructions to His Disciples to "love God and each other" daily and repent when you don't. Believing specific things ABOUT Christ is directly related to being part of a Christian religion . . . and NOT about being a follower of Christ. It is no straw man. It is the entire reason the churches have so badly corrupted Christ's Gospel beyond recognition. Jesus has to be appalled at the mess the churches have made of His message of love and reconciliation.
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:09 PM
 
198 posts, read 210,350 times
Reputation: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The lack of understanding and ignorance revealed here happens to be about the reason the emphasis has been on WHAT you believe ABOUT Christ and NOT about following Christ's instructions to His Disciples to "love God and each other" daily and repent when you don't. Believing specific things ABOUT Christ is directly related to being part of a Christian religion . . . and NOT about being a follower of Christ. It is no straw man. It is the entire reason the churches have so badly corrupted Christ's Gospel beyond recognition. Jesus has to be appalled at the mess the churches have made of His message of love and reconciliation.

Mystic, I happen to partly agree with you. There should be less focus on WHAT we believe about Christ, and focus on just striving daily to live like him. But, I'm trying to understand, do you not believe in organized religion at all? Meaning you don't go to church? As long as you live as God requires following Christ, you are saved? I'm not disagreeing, I just want a little clarification. Some believe you MUST go to church to be saved, because we're not supposed to forsake the assembly. What is your belief?
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Old 10-08-2013, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Clanton, AL
668 posts, read 571,902 times
Reputation: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The lack of understanding and ignorance revealed here happens to be about the reason the emphasis has been on WHAT you believe ABOUT Christ and NOT about following Christ's instructions to His Disciples to "love God and each other" daily and repent when you don't. Believing specific things ABOUT Christ is directly related to being part of a Christian religion . . . and NOT about being a follower of Christ. It is no straw man. It is the entire reason the churches have so badly corrupted Christ's Gospel beyond recognition. Jesus has to be appalled at the mess the churches have made of His message of love and reconciliation.
You are not following the conversation very closely are you? You keep talking about other things.
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:42 AM
 
6,822 posts, read 5,170,603 times
Reputation: 3730
Here is a good article on the issue..

Monergism vs. synergism Ė which view is correct?
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