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Old 10-09-2013, 07:20 AM
 
5,133 posts, read 2,528,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azrael17 View Post
Jesus said keep my commandments because he meant for us to follow his teachings.
Good point made ^ above ^ .

And Jesus' commandments are summed up in Jesus NEW commandment on love at John 13 vs 34,35

The Constitution of the Mosaic law ended for Christians at Pentecost.- Romans 10 v 4.
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:16 PM
 
670 posts, read 668,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Good point made ^ above ^ .

And Jesus' commandments are summed up in Jesus NEW commandment on love at John 13 vs 34,35

The Constitution of the Mosaic law ended for Christians at Pentecost.- Romans 10 v 4.
Actually the commands to love are not some thing new Christ created, they predate him in the Torah.

"Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord." - Leviticus 19:18

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength." - Deuteronomy 6:5

There are two contradictory gospels in the New Testament, one of Christs origin and one of mankind's own making, it is for this reason why I reject the Epistle of Romans and gospel of John, to me in my theology they are heretical.

I instead believe in the Gospel taught in the Epistle of James, the Didache, and Matthew.

I'll post two verses for comparisons sake:

"Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes." - Romans 10:4

"You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone." - James 2:24

I do not accept Romans, I do however believe in the Epistle of James and the Didache.


May love and peace be with you always.

Last edited by Azrael17; 10-11-2013 at 09:34 PM..
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:46 AM
 
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You can end this discussion here-

John 1:1
King James Bible
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.





The Word, Yahshua (christ) wrote the Commandments, His finger etched them out, they are His.






Hebrews 13:8

King James Version (KJV)

8 (Jesus Christ) Yahshua the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
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Old 10-12-2013, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,556 posts, read 11,890,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMurph View Post
You can end this discussion here-
The law came through Moses, but the truth came through Jesus Christ. (John 1:17)

This is my beloved Son: hear Him (not Moses/law, not Elijah/prophets). (Luke 9:35)


I don't like to just "throw out" books of the Bible I don't like (Azrael17), but even if you discount Romans you can see that the Mosaic/Levitical law was based on our performance, and the Melchizedek order is based on His work - if we want to keep the old covenant, what do you do with the crucified Christ?

What'd He die for?

Christianity in its purest form is this: believing that God sent His Son to be a sacrifice/substitute for our death as payment for sin, and our life as we are adopted into God's fold - graphed into the vine. But if we continue to base our relationship with God on our performance, then a) we are judged according to the Law, and b) we deny God's greatest gift and exhibition of love at the Cross.

You can't live under both covenants, it's either law or grace; but somehow we've continued in law and sprinkled a little grace with it - you can't do that, Jesus said it many times - the old will spoil the New.
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Old 10-12-2013, 06:08 AM
 
112 posts, read 94,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
The law came through Moses, but the truth came through Jesus Christ. (John 1:17)

This is my beloved Son: hear Him (not Moses/law, not Elijah/prophets). (Luke 9:35)


I don't like to just "throw out" books of the Bible I don't like (Azrael17), but even if you discount Romans you can see that the Mosaic/Levitical law was based on our performance, and the Melchizedek order is based on His work - if we want to keep the old covenant, what do you do with the crucified Christ?

What'd He die for?

Christianity in its purest form is this: believing that God sent His Son to be a sacrifice/substitute for our death as payment for sin, and our life as we are adopted into God's fold - graphed into the vine. But if we continue to base our relationship with God on our performance, then a) we are judged according to the Law, and b) we deny God's greatest gift and exhibition of love at the Cross.

You can't live under both covenants, it's either law or grace; but somehow we've continued in law and sprinkled a little grace with it - you can't do that, Jesus said it many times - the old will spoil the New.

Grace is NOT an umbrella of forgiveness.........false teaching. Grace is Wisdom and Knowledge which leads to salvation.

Also there is no salvation without repentance and if you do not know what to repent for.........no salvation.


Once saved, always saved........another false teaching. You are Judged on earth at death, assigned a resurrection, to be condemned or of the Righteous.



The second covenant is an extension of the first, the only thing that changed was that Yahshua became the Lamb, and the granting of the Holy Spirit.
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Old 10-12-2013, 06:51 AM
 
Location: New England
32,221 posts, read 21,094,471 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMurph View Post
Grace is NOT an umbrella of forgiveness.........false teaching. Grace is Wisdom and Knowledge which leads to salvation.

Also there is no salvation without repentance and if you do not know what to repent for.........no salvation.


Once saved, always saved........another false teaching. You are Judged on earth at death, assigned a resurrection, to be condemned or of the Righteous.



The second covenant is an extension of the first, the only thing that changed was that Yahshua became the Lamb, and the granting of the Holy Spirit.
Salvation from eternal hell Is also another false teaching. Salvation from living without the reality of God in your life is the salvation Jesus Christ came to save us from. I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God. He is God and Father of all people, not just Christians, he's the God and Father of all the prodigals too, who have lost their way.
One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and IN ALL. The all just don't know it yet.

Knowledge of this salvation comes by knowing sin is remitted, not God is holding you accountable unto you do know. God does not bring us back to himself through fear of punishment for rejecting him, but by freeing us from our fears so that we do come back to him.

To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins. This is the grace and truth which came by Jesus Christ.
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Old 10-12-2013, 07:04 AM
 
112 posts, read 94,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Salvation from eternal hell Is also another false teaching. Salvation from living without the reality of God in your life is the salvation Jesus Christ came to save us from. I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God. He is God and Father of all people, not just Christians, he's the God and Father of all the prodigals too, who have lost their way.
One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and IN ALL. The all just don't know it yet.

Knowledge of this salvation comes by knowing sin is remitted, not God is holding you accountable unto you do know. God does not bring us back to himself through fear of punishment for rejecting him, but by freeing us from our fears so that we do come back to him.

To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins. This is the grace and truth which came by Jesus Christ.


You will ascend nowhere.

John 3:13
"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.



Revelation 20:6

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



If you are chosen, of the 'elect', you will be resurrected from the grave.


You do NOT go to heaven.
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Old 10-12-2013, 07:08 AM
 
112 posts, read 94,522 times
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1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord (Yahshua) himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ (Yahshua) will rise first.





All you have to do is READ what is written.


You don't get to make it up as you go along.
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Old 10-12-2013, 07:23 AM
 
Location: california
5,654 posts, read 4,877,099 times
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For this reason the only message I repeat ,
The relationship is one of obedience.
Keeping His commandments, particularly those of the Holy Spirit, Jesus designated specifically to teach and guide in God's will, in Jesus place .
Hence Jesus directed His disciples NOT to be called Rabbi =teacher.
Jesus is the teacher ,now the Holy Spirit.
The volume of men, NO matter who they are, distorting this order, does not make Jesus word void.
John1;1 Jesus is the word of God. not Paul nor Peter nor any group of men .
John 14;6 I am the way ..........
John 15; He that abides in me .......
This is not a one time shallow commitment to a vague space hoping for something eventually.
This is a living real relationship in a desperate need of His influence day, by day, by day, by day,,,,,,,,
This is a prayer life of needing His instruction how to pray, one's life in service to Him, not self.
Loving God is what this is about .
Loving God must come first, NOT second.
Then loving those that God instructs to act on, is next.
Governing your own attention, is not obedience , though it is noble in men's eye it is not always the right thing at the time ,only God knows that, and the right action to take.
Repenting is moving from self government to God's government, because in heaven, it is God's government .
If you are unwilling to live in God's govern here and now, you will be extremely uncomfortable in heaven.
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Old 10-12-2013, 07:28 AM
 
Location: New England
32,221 posts, read 21,094,471 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMurph View Post
You will ascend nowhere.

John 3:13
"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.



Revelation 20:6

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



If you are chosen, of the 'elect', you will be resurrected for the grave.


You do NOT go to heaven.

Did I say anything about ascending to what most Christians believe is heaven?. Up into the heavens was the place the angels told the disciples not to be looking to,and yet Christians are still looking to it, thinking God is hid up there some where and we're down here, not knowing that all that is of God is within us. The only ascension I desire is an ascension above that of the carnal mind by walking in oneness with God in this life through love, thus fulfilling the whole law, for love is the fulfillment of the law of life.
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