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Old 10-13-2013, 12:07 PM
 
241 posts, read 207,264 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Clear, excellent posts #19, #24, and #27. Your scholarship and interpretation provide leadership to many of us.

How one VIEWS the Bible is paramount to its place of worship in the denominations into which we divide ourselves. Those whose VIEW of the scripture is more modernistic and untied to historical evidence or textual review, tend to have a more "physical" attachment to the Bible than the "spiritual" attachment many others have.

I found a quote by Greg Carey, a professor of New Testament at Lancaster Theological Seminary, which reflects almost exactly my own growth from that modernistic, mystical view of scripture to one that is constantly seeking and searching for the truth God offers--whether it is in the Bible, in the inspirational words of another, in song, in the kindness that one human shows another, or in the beauty of nature.


Greg Carey: Where Do 'Liberal' Bible Scholars Come From?

So I can agree with the thought that we should ALL read the Bible, utilize it within our worship services without worshipping it, and see what happens!!! Yes, there will be some who will find the inconsistencies in the Bible to be troubling, and will fall away if pushed by dogmatists to hold to a literal view of it. But there will be others who see the Bible for what it really is, and be energized to study it more, to understand it better, to put it in it's historical perspective in order to prevent it from being a bludgeon used against others, to learn that even those early believers were haunted by doubts and concerns and misunderstandings. And that faith, small as a mustard seed, will be enough to overcome the rocky road that traverses the meandering writings that we have. And they will be spiritually better for the journey.

The OVER emphasis of the Bible is a belief that getting the words right, is the highest form of faith. Jesus came to give us life, a living, breathing, throbbing, pulsating blow your hair back tingle your spine roll the windows down and drive fast experience of God right here, right now. He walked and talked and laughed and INTERACTED with the people that many of our churches reject today. If you can't get God OUT of the Bible and INTO your life, then the Bible serves no purpose in worship and certainly is not worthy of study.

The Bible is best understood, not as the sole source of spirituality OR worship, but as a foundation for learning how to walk in the steps of Jesus and produce the fruit of the spirit which comes from those who have truly found Him.
beautiful!
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Old 10-13-2013, 01:53 PM
 
400 posts, read 452,437 times
Reputation: 50
I was raised Catholic and went to a Catholic seminary. I left. I am now Protestant and graduated from a Protestant Bible College with a degree in ministries. In this thread there are too many generalizations being made by folks who have spent no time actually observing what it is they are espousing. Opinions are not facts. Bible believing, thumping fundamentalists do not deny God speaks outside the realm of Scripture. Nor do they pigeon hole and handcuff God to its pages as some have falsly asserted. Using The Bible and believing upon it as the inspired Wod of God is not worshiping it.

Those who think they have somehow matured spiritually or been enlightened to a higher level of knowing God are only fooling themselves. Those who think they are somehow at the pinnacle of their walk are one step from making themselves God and stepping off the precipice.

Differing viewpoints are fine long as one's views point in the right direction. But, to infer, insinuate, or prounounce one's viewpoint as more spritually validated is ridiculous and dangerous.

Making unsubstantiated claims about words and their meanings in verses such as 2Timothy3:16 serves no one. This verse is one of Christendom's foundations. Without it The Bible is reduced to nothing more than a perennial bestseller.

The OP resides in Zimbabwe and has also lived in Botswana per his profile. I don't know what Christian church he attends and admittedly know nothing of religion in Africa but I look forward to spending eternity with him.
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Old 10-13-2013, 02:15 PM
 
21,870 posts, read 16,696,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Nourishment comes from every word out of the mouth of God. And MysticPhD and others are absolutely correct that the Word of God, is so much more than the Bible. In fact, the Bible itself is not necessarily the "Word" referred to in the scriptures themselves. To believe that God has no personal communication with people today is, in fact, to deny the very scriptures held sacred:

1. Young Samuel could not distinguish the voice of God from the man he served every day (I Sam. 3:4-5)
2. The resurrected Jesus walked for a long distance with two of His disciples and they didn't recognize Him for who He was (Luke 24:13-31).
3. Jacob went to sleep not realizing he was lying over the gateway to heaven (Genesis 28:11-17)

The Pharisees themselves had the scriptures memorized backwards and forwards--put all their faith in "knowledge" of the scriptures---and Jesus called them vipers.

God still speaks outside of the Bible as well | Missing the point?

And this is why placing the Bible as the sole emphasis in worship is not only inadequate (the crumbs under the table), but potentially heretical (the Pharisees pride in biblical knowledge).
What you people seem not to understand is that while Jesus Christ is the ultimate revelation of God to man, that which can be known about Jesus Christ is by way of the Scriptures. You do not learn about Christ by staring at your navel in contemplation, or by looking at a flower. And God is not today revealing Himself through dreams. Also, while as God Jesus indwells every Church age believer, as man He is seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven and is not going to take a walk with you as in Luke 24:13-31.

If you want to learn about Jesus Christ who is the living Word of God, and what He had to say, you must, under the filling ministry of the Holy Spirit, do so through the written Word of God which speaks of Him. Jesus had many more things to say to the apostles, but could not say them because they could not at that time bear it. Therefore, those things which Jesus had to communicate to the apostles had to wait until the Holy Spirit came and He made those things known to the apostles (John 16:12-15) who then communicated those things both orally and in writing. The result is the New Testament Scriptures.

And no one has said that the Bible is the sole emphasis in worship. As I said in post #2, ''The believer redeems his time on this earth by growing spiritually by means of grace through the inculcation, metabolization, and application of God's Word under the filling of the Holy Spirit. That praises God and is the highest form of worship.''

'Highest' does not mean 'sole'.

I will add this. Bible doctrine left on the pages of the Bible is useless to you. It is like food on a shelf at the grocery store. For food to be useful it must be prepared and eaten. Only then is it metabolized for the benefit of the body. In like manner, Bible doctrine must be transferred from the pages of the Bible into your soul under the filling of the Holy Spirit where when it is understood and believed it is metabolized as spiritual food for the spiritual growth of the believer and made available for application in the believer's life.

Last edited by Mike555; 10-13-2013 at 02:29 PM..
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Old 10-13-2013, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,288 posts, read 5,495,693 times
Reputation: 4048
Default Unsubstantiated is correct

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartstarr1960 View Post
I was raised Catholic and went to a Catholic seminary. I left. I am now Protestant and graduated from a Protestant Bible College with a degree in ministries. In this thread there are too many generalizations being made by folks who have spent no time actually observing what it is they are espousing. Opinions are not facts. Bible believing, thumping fundamentalists do not deny God speaks outside the realm of Scripture. Nor do they pigeon hole and handcuff God to its pages as some have falsly asserted. Using The Bible and believing upon it as the inspired Wod of God is not worshiping it.

Those who think they have somehow matured spiritually or been enlightened to a higher level of knowing God are only fooling themselves. Those who think they are somehow at the pinnacle of their walk are one step from making themselves God and stepping off the precipice.

Differing viewpoints are fine long as one's views point in the right direction. But, to infer, insinuate, or prounounce one's viewpoint as more spritually validated is ridiculous and dangerous.

Making unsubstantiated claims about words and their meanings in verses such as 2Timothy3:16 serves no one. This verse is one of Christendom's foundations. Without it The Bible is reduced to nothing more than a perennial bestseller.

The OP resides in Zimbabwe and has also lived in Botswana per his profile. I don't know what Christian church he attends and admittedly know nothing of religion in Africa but I look forward to spending eternity with him.
I agree with you that unsubstantiated claims that 2 Tim 3:16 refers to the New Testament, or even ALL of the OT, is quite unsubstantiated. When Paul, or his follower, who wrote this letter, lived and breathed there were only OT writings considered sacred by Jews--and perhaps a few early Christians. And not even the entire OT had been canonized by the Jews.

Relying solely on the Bible for salvation as opposed to the Holy Spirit that indwells the true believer is nothing more than idolatry.

The purpose of the Bible is to see THROUGH it to God on the other side. Spending all one's time looking AT it, only exposes the many scratches and blemishes men have imposed to keep from seeing the true God that dwells only in the heart, not in the Bible.

I have 21 hours of Bible courses, hold a license to preach from the Koza Baptist Church on Okinawa, and have expounded the scriptures in dozens of churches. Briefly had an interim pastorate in my own church-----and all of it means nothing at all when it comes to knowing God in such a way that it becomes second nature to treat others as Jesus treated them.

The OP can really experience God when he treats others as Jesus taught us to treat them. It is all about the doing---not about the words ABOUT doing. And that is why the Bible must be one TOOL to find God in a world God created and instills with all His Spirit. There is no difference between the holy and the profane. There is only difference in how we see the spirit of God in both.
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