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Old 10-15-2013, 08:32 AM
 
Location: california
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Churches have done it from the beginning .read Revelation.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:08 PM
Status: "The nicest curve on a woman's body is her smile" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Florida/Tennessee
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Does a body stay the same while growing? If change/growth is not evident then we have a church that is comatose or dead.

What makes life evident? and at the same time what does death look like?

A body, or in this case the Church, will exhibit everything your own existence has faced. Sin, forgiveness, guilt, grace, relationships, isolation... for all seasons there is a time for everything.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:08 PM
 
198 posts, read 209,719 times
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There is a difference between changing and growing and learning. God's word will never change. He is the same. We are the ones to change. But, if we are to spread the gospel and be relevant in people's lives who are lost today, our APPROACH must change, but not our message.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Somerset, Kentucky
473 posts, read 615,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartstarr1960 View Post
Much is being made lately that, at least in some Christian faiths, changes are afoot. These changes are reported as 'changing with the times,' or 'modernization' by the media and much hoopla and praise is being made about it. While I think the reasons are profoundly deeper seated, regardless the reason, it is timely.
1. Is the Church under any obligation to reflect the times we live in?
2. Should we go along with all 'modernizations' or is there a line in the sand believers should not cross?
3. Is it the role of Church hierarchy to decide the Church's direction or is it the role of those in the pews?
4. Would you continue to blindly support a Church whose changes became unacceptable to you and why?
I believe that Churches and people should always be growing and changing due to greater revelation and understanding of the word of God. None of us know everything and should always be open to greater wisdom, even if it means admitting in front of your congregation that you were wrong. This happened Sunday with my preacher, he admitted to having misunderstood and teaching something wrongly, then he backed it up. Sometimes modernizations are just a better understanding. Times are that we can cross reference much easier, get others take and understanding on issues and then check for ourselves, etc. Change is growth and all things always change.
Yeshua Bless You
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:33 PM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,625,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartstarr1960 View Post
Much is being made lately that, at least in some Christian faiths, changes are afoot. These changes are reported as 'changing with the times,' or 'modernization' by the media and much hoopla and praise is being made about it. While I think the reasons are profoundly deeper seated, regardless the reason, it is timely.
1. Is the Church under any obligation to reflect the times we live in?
2. Should we go along with all 'modernizations' or is there a line in the sand believers should not cross?
3. Is it the role of Church hierarchy to decide the Church's direction or is it the role of those in the pews?
4. Would you continue to blindly support a Church whose changes became unacceptable to you and why?
In my experience, I've seen the liberal churches that "change with the times" are the ones that die out in the next generation. We see that with liberal Lutherans, Presbyterians and Methodists. When church becomes nothing more than a social club, the world finds better things to do on Sunday morning.
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Old 10-17-2013, 07:45 PM
 
40,052 posts, read 26,730,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mszlady View Post
There is a difference between changing and growing and learning. God's word will never change. He is the same. We are the ones to change. But, if we are to spread the gospel and be relevant in people's lives who are lost today, our APPROACH must change, but not our message.
An unchanging God would be a dead one . . . because change is the unmistakable sign of Life. Our God is a Living God. Life is growth and growth is change. God IS Love and love grows by adding love to it. We are supposed to be "love-producers" for God . . . through "love of God and each other"daily and by repenting when we don't. This expands Love, ever expanding our Universe, and growing God.
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:29 AM
Status: "The nicest curve on a woman's body is her smile" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Florida/Tennessee
2,404 posts, read 4,307,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
In my experience, I've seen the liberal churches that "change with the times" are the ones that die out in the next generation. We see that with liberal Lutherans, Presbyterians and Methodists. When church becomes nothing more than a social club, the world finds better things to do on Sunday morning.
There is a difference between getting it wrong and doing it sinfully. Even Paul addressed this in the early stages of the Church... so it's reasonable to think it will happen again.

When we/me/you believe churches must be perfect in order for us to attended then we must challenge each other on that point.

Again... a church is to sin as a hospital is to sickness. People are in charge of both of them. So it would seem to me there's gonna be a whole lot wrong, with a whole lot of things. A perfect sinless church would be ... where exactly?

I'm no different than a lot of folks and I'd prefer to be fishing or watching football but I also know church feeds my spirit and that's important for me. I also don't like going to the doctor, DMV, paying my electric bill but I know get something in return... so I do things that are good for me and are for my benefit.

It's just not that complicated.
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Florida -
8,763 posts, read 10,837,755 times
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'Change' has and will continue to occur in individuals and 'churches' (eg; liturgy, music, programs, relaxed format, dress, contemporary/traditional services, small groups, etc). In this respect, there is nothing wrong with changing our style of worship ... as long as we continue to "Worship God in Spirit and Truth" (John 4).

Some ‘church groups,’ however, see 'change' as liberalizing/modernizing the commitment to Christ and the Word of God; ... compromising doctrine in response to social pressure (particularly in the sexual arena). Others have abandoned God's basic principles of Salvation ... again, embracing popular or liberal doctrines of today. This type of 'new enlightenment' or 'progressive thinking' has existed from the first century, when Judiazer's first declared that people could become Christians ... IF they first became Jews.

We should probably not worry too much about changing the color of carpet in the sanctuary or the type of music, but, when folks start tearing pages out of the Bible, in the name of 'changing with the times', they are attempting to change God's truth and standards. In this respect, Scripture has always warned us to "beware of false doctrine" … particularly in the church.

Last edited by jghorton; 10-18-2013 at 11:02 AM..
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:58 PM
 
400 posts, read 452,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
'Change' has and will continue to occur in individuals and 'churches' (eg; liturgy, music, programs, relaxed format, dress, contemporary/traditional services, small groups, etc). In this respect, there is nothing wrong with changing our style of worship ... as long as we continue to "Worship God in Spirit and Truth" (John 4).

Some ‘church groups,’ however, see 'change' as liberalizing/modernizing the commitment to Christ and the Word of God; ... compromising doctrine in response to social pressure (particularly in the sexual arena). Others have abandoned God's basic principles of Salvation ... again, embracing popular or liberal doctrines of today. This type of 'new enlightenment' or 'progressive thinking' has existed from the first century, when Judiazer's first declared that people could become Christians ... IF they first became Jews.

We should probably not worry too much about changing the color of carpet in the sanctuary or the type of music, but, when folks start tearing pages out of the Bible, in the name of 'changing with the times', they are attempting to change God's truth and standards. In this respect, Scripture has always warned us to "beware of false doctrine" … particularly in the church.
I couldn't agree more. With change usually comes consequence. Some Church changes have resulted in unintended and unforeseen negative consequences, many not realized immediately. Churches reap what they sow, they get what they grow. The further a Church moves from being Crucified in Christ to being conformed to this world makes John's warnings in Revelation 2-3 more relevant than ever.
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Old 10-19-2013, 02:04 PM
 
670 posts, read 668,315 times
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The only never changing thing is that forever there are changes,
That is why I say: Be like a palm tree which sways with the wind rather than an old oak that snaps when the storm comes.
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