U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-14-2013, 07:23 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,089,990 times
Reputation: 4527

Advertisements

Yes of course the Bible contradict itself. Just like any other assembly of documents that are spread over a hundred years will. It can't even figure out if there's one God or many gods and if it the one god it talks about as yahweh is it the one that is superior over the other gods.

I'm not going to quote all sorts of chapters and verses, but I'll leave you with these two.

1 Samuel 28:13
And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

1 Chronicles 16:25
The Lord ... is to be feared above all gods.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-14-2013, 07:31 PM
 
9,779 posts, read 6,729,570 times
Reputation: 2485
Yes, there are contradiction!

Quote:
James 2:14-26
New King James Version (NKJV)
Faith Without Works Is Dead

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my[b] works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-14-2013, 08:07 PM
 
11,245 posts, read 11,265,004 times
Reputation: 3449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Yes, there are contradiction!
The contradiction in a nutshell is:

24, "You see then how by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James)

and

"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Bible apologists have struggled with these two verses for 2000 years. Here's one of the better ones:

Quote:
Also, notice carefully James' words, "...shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works" (James 2:18). With God we are justified by FAITH; BUT with men we are justified by WORKS.
I've seen some pretty creative reconciliations of these two dogmas in my time but this one takes the cake--and not only the cake, it takes the whole bakery.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-14-2013, 08:47 PM
 
2,532 posts, read 2,016,926 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
The contradiction in a nutshell is:

24, "You see then how by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James)

and

"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Bible apologists have struggled with these two verses for 2000 years. Here's one of the better ones:



I've seen some pretty creative reconciliations of these two dogmas in my time but this one takes the cake--and not only the cake, it takes the whole bakery.
Faith is the means by which we are saved because it imparts the substance of spiritual things hoped for. It is impossible to have the faith of Christ without those spiritual things working in you and then through you. Genuine faith always works the works of Christ because the substance of spiritual things, works hand in hand with faith not apart from each other. Faith also is the evidence you have these things and therefor your works will show/prove His substance obtained by faith to be real. Therefor Paul said I can prove my faith by my works not that works are the means to salvation.

There is no contraction but rather a harmonious whole. On the other hand, works apart from faith is self effort and not of His righteousness born of the faith that brings one into contact with the very nature/substance of who God is.

Last edited by garya123; 10-14-2013 at 10:16 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-14-2013, 08:58 PM
 
11,245 posts, read 11,265,004 times
Reputation: 3449
Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
Faith is the means by which we are saved because it imparts the substance of spiritual things hoped for. It is impossible to have the faith of Christ without those spiritual things working in you and then through you. Genuine faith always works the works of Christ because the substance of spiritual things, works hand in hand with faith not apart from each other. Faith also is the evidence you have these things and therefor your works will show/prove His substance obtained by faith to be real. Therefor Paul said I can prove my faith by my works not that works are the means to salvation.

There is no contraction but rather a harmonious whole. On the other hand, works apart from faith is self effort and not of His righteousness born of faith that brings one into contact with the very nature/substance of who God is.
If I accept Jesus and believe He was raised from the dead and then spend the rest of my life isolated while I study holy writ, am I saved? If I am, how---since I did no good works for others my entire life?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-14-2013, 10:14 PM
 
2,532 posts, read 2,016,926 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
If I accept Jesus and believe He was raised from the dead and then spend the rest of my life isolated while I study holy writ, am I saved? If I am, how---since I did no good works for others my entire life?
That is a hypothetical that does not exist in the Kingdom. You will change even if it be only your attitudes and how you treat others. Not saying you do not have some of these qualities now [don't know you] but they will be enhanced/magnified. The hallmark of the Kingdom is it's growth from one state of Glory to greater states of Glory [beauty of His righteousness/character].
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-14-2013, 10:37 PM
 
11,245 posts, read 11,265,004 times
Reputation: 3449
Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
That is a hypothetical that does not exist in the Kingdom. You will change even if it be only your attitudes and how you treat others. Not saying you do not have some of these qualities now [don't know you] but they will be enhanced/magnified. The hallmark of the Kingdom is it's growth from one state of Glory to greater states of Glory [beauty of His righteousness/character].
Millions of people accept Jesus in later life and because of their older age choose to stay indoors and spend their days studying the Word and going on the Internet. They rarely have interaction with the outside world, probably consciously choose not to (given the average IQ they're forced to confront every day) So how are these people going to engage in good works when they make a conscious choice not to?

Perhaps good works can consist of just trying to learn who God is and what He's all about. If these are good works, then we have redefined the term, "good works" as not necessarily having them involve social intercourse with other people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-14-2013, 11:49 PM
 
2,532 posts, read 2,016,926 times
Reputation: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Millions of people accept Jesus in later life and because of their older age choose to stay indoors and spend their days studying the Word and going on the Internet. They rarely have interaction with the outside world, probably consciously choose not to (given the average IQ they're forced to confront every day) So how are these people going to engage in good works when they make a conscious choice not to?

Perhaps good works can consist of just trying to learn who God is and what He's all about. If these are good works, then we have redefined the term, "good works" as not necessarily having them involve social intercourse with other people.
I can go with that because all are called differently. Good works sometimes only involves prayer and good words to whosoever may be a part of ones life.

JN 21:21-22 "Peter seeing him [John] said to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus said unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to you? you follow Me."

I like Peter however have other things to do but often times it is waiting in prayer, study, and meditation in preparation for when God does call me to do something [sometimes writing] because I am still able. Salvation is first and foremost a state of being, of abiding in Him, of not doing what I used to do which is within the abilities of Christ for anyone. The old can abide.
One can be a most powerful influence in the world and in generations after without leaving his room as Paul demonstrated while in prison. The Spirit knows no bounds.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-15-2013, 01:20 AM
 
11,245 posts, read 11,265,004 times
Reputation: 3449
Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
I can go with that because all are called differently. Good works sometimes only involves prayer and good words to whosoever may be a part of ones life.

JN 21:21-22 "Peter seeing him [John] said to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus said unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to you? you follow Me."

I like Peter however have other things to do but often times it is waiting in prayer, study, and meditation in preparation for when God does call me to do something [sometimes writing] because I am still able. Salvation is first and foremost a state of being, of abiding in Him, of not doing what I used to do which is within the abilities of Christ for anyone. The old can abide.
One can be a most powerful influence in the world and in generations after without leaving his room as Paul demonstrated while in prison. The Spirit knows no bounds.
Well, hey, if good works can consist of nothing more than prayer and study and meditation, then we have something to agree upon, and if that's what James was trying to impart then the two scriptures don't collide.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-15-2013, 02:45 PM
Status: "The nicest curve on a woman's body is her smile" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Florida/Tennessee
2,423 posts, read 4,311,104 times
Reputation: 1287
When contradiction exist for the believer that is a study point... embrace it. Go quiet and go study.
When contradiction exist for the non believer it's a point of attack against believers.

When we believers have a lack of understanding... that is our weakness in faith, but a trait all of us have.
We believers will never have complete and total understanding of scripture. When someone claims they do... beware!


Satan will exploit this! happens all the time. Do not debate anyone about anything the Holy Spirit has not placed conviction into your heart.

Share your lack of understanding with other believers but do so carefully, with non believers. There is no shame in not understanding, but there is when you claim to have secret knowledge.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top