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Old 10-15-2013, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Florida -
8,764 posts, read 10,845,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Same tired old defense every fundamentalist gives to detract from the obvious contradictions. "Who are you gonna believe, the 'inspired' word of God or your lyin' mind that God gave you to think and reason things out with?"

Try this: want a fool-proof way to get into heaven without worrying about all that believe on Jesus stuff and you can't live a sinful life and get into heaven stuff? I have the perfect verse for you and it comes straight from Jesus: Matthew 7:1

Jesus promises that as long as you do not judge anyone you will never face judgement yourself. It's a virtual get into heaven free card. The only stipulation is you can't judge other people's actions.

Like my plumber friend always says, "Beautiful!"

Bet no "Inerrant Bible Fundamentlaist" touches this one with a 100-foot pole.
You are wrong in both your assumption as well as when you regard your own 'opinions and philosophies' as being equal or higher than the Word of God ("calling truth a lie, and a lie, the truth"). What you smugly call 'contradictions' in God's Word only reflect a lack of true understanding and Godly wisdom (a foolish worldly 'wisdom' that has delved the truth and found scripture lacking') Further, it's amazing how blindly selective some are in staunchly defending parts of the Bible, while rejecting and ignoring others. ("Can salt water and fresh water come from the same source?" - I think not.)

Your point about 'judging other people's ACTIONS is in error.' (You have confused discernment with condemnation). We are indeed to judge actions, philosophies, truth and error, but, not other PEOPLE. God is in charge of that. If we were not to recognize truth and error and judge between those 'things' God would not have given them to us to begin with! --- Those who claim that discerning the difference between good and evil and truth and error... is 'judging people,' are those who most often fall into the "love me, love my sin" camp.

I Cor. 2:15 - The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:10 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,091,191 times
Reputation: 4527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
When contradiction exist for the believer that is a study point... embrace it. Go quiet and go study.
When contradiction exist for the non believer it's a point of attack against believers.

When we believers have a lack of understanding... that is our weakness in faith, but a trait all of us have.
We believers will never have complete and total understanding of scripture. When someone claims they do... beware!


Satan will exploit this! happens all the time. Do not debate anyone about anything the Holy Spirit has not placed conviction into your heart.

Share your lack of understanding with other believers but do so carefully, with non believers. There is no shame in not understanding, but there is when you claim to have secret knowledge.
Rather than reading something into this, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:37 PM
 
11,250 posts, read 11,267,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
You are wrong in both your assumption as well as when you regard your own 'opinions and philosophies' as being equal or higher than the Word of God ("calling truth a lie, and a lie, the truth"). What you smugly call 'contradictions' in God's Word only reflect a lack of true understanding and Godly wisdom (a foolish worldly 'wisdom' that has delved the truth and found scripture lacking') Further, it's amazing how blindly selective some are in staunchly defending parts of the Bible, while rejecting and ignoring others. ("Can salt water and fresh water come from the same source?" - I think not.)

Your point about 'judging other people's ACTIONS is in error.' (You have confused discernment with condemnation). We are indeed to judge actions, philosophies, truth and error, but, not other PEOPLE. God is in charge of that. If we were not to recognize truth and error and judge between those 'things' God would not have given them to us to begin with! --- Those who claim that discerning the difference between good and evil and truth and error... is 'judging people,' are those who most often fall into the "love me, love my sin" camp.

I Cor. 2:15 - The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,
So please explain to me how it is okay to judge one and not the other and still be in compliance with Jesus' command.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:42 PM
Status: "Smacking fundies." (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,824 posts, read 13,421,966 times
Reputation: 11676
You can split hairs until there's nothing left.

Maybe when you're all finally done, you'll be able to start from Ground Zero and stumble your way to the real truth.

But I have my doubts about several of you.
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Old 10-15-2013, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Florida -
8,764 posts, read 10,845,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
So please explain to me how it is okay to judge one and not the other and still be in compliance with Jesus' command.
Think about it this way: Do you believe that robbery, murder, lying and adultery are wrong? (of course you do, and the Bible and Jesus clearly say so!). But, does that also mean that all robbers, murderers, liars and adulterers are helplessly condemned and going to hell? (of course not, plus, that's not your call!). -- The first proposition is discernment/'judgment' of things; the latter is 'judging'/condemning people.

As previously stated and referenced in I Cor 2:15, 'we are to judge' ... discern the truth/error of all things', but, per Matt 7, 'we are not to judge' other people (that's God's job).
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:54 PM
 
11,250 posts, read 11,267,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
Think about it this way: Do you believe that robbery, murder, lying and adultery are wrong? (of course you do, and the Bible and Jesus clearly say so!). But, does that also mean that all robbers, murderers, liars and adulterers are helplessly condemned and going to hell? (of course not, plus, that's not your call!). -- The first proposition is discernment/'judgment' of things; the latter is 'judging'/condemning people.

As previously stated and referenced in I Cor 2:15, 'we are to judge' ... discern the truth/error of all things', but, per Matt 7, 'we are not to judge' other people (that's God's job).
But I think that was the point of my original post. I can see a robber committing a crime and say, "I don't approve of his robbing because it is wrong to do that (judgment of his action, not a sin) but for the grace of God there go I, so how can I condemn him?" (non-judgment of the person)

So as long as I have not judged the person himself by saying, "Look at that no-good thieving robber. He should be hung by his toes until he's dead!" I have saved myself from the final judgment because I have followed Jesus' command and not judged other people.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:08 PM
 
3,505 posts, read 4,961,296 times
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Some links

101 Contradictions in the Bible.

A List Of Biblical Contradictions

BIBLE CONTRADICTIONS ANSWERED -- Biblical Errors Mistakes Difficulties Discrepancies Countered

Losing Faith In Faith

http://www.evilbible/com/Biblical-Contradictions.htm
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,286 posts, read 5,495,693 times
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Wow, what a sad state of affairs when Christians have to be hit in the face with "points" from atheist websites.

When Christians are less worried about the "written details," they no longer have to be concerned about proving God by proving the Bible. God lives in our lives. The Bible is the best effort of early believers to convey their understanding of Him. The authors were all interested in conveying spiritual truths, not history as we understand history today.

But instead of living their lives as an example of faith, loving when others hate, forgiving when others seek vengeance, we will have many who claim the name of Christ spin their wheels trying to defend something that shouldn't need any human defense anyway. If you believe in God, then God needs you to be His witness, not His defender.

As stated before, you can hear about faith but the truthfulness has to be seen. If you are a true believer and you have a living faith, its evidenced by the works you do, not the words you say.

The Bible becomes truth before the world when, as Christians, our lips and our lives agree. There can be no contradiction in a life that lives the word it preaches.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:27 PM
 
11,250 posts, read 11,267,699 times
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The Bibliolators in here think that if a Christian speaks one word against the Bible they are heretics that should be burned at the stake.

A Christian can believe in Christ without believing the sanctity of the Bible. It's a flawed book because it was written by flawed men but that doesn't detract from the central message of Jesus as Savior of men even if most of Genesis is just fables. Does the fact something is a fable detract from the message it is designed to teach men? But Bibliolators worship and revere every word in the Bible as though God Himself spoke them but He didn't. Still, I believe the Bible is the most important text in human history. I just don't believe we should bow down and worship it as many in here seem to do.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Florida -
8,764 posts, read 10,845,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
But I think that was the point of my original post. I can see a robber committing a crime and say, "I don't approve of his robbing because it is wrong to do that (judgment of his action, not a sin) but for the grace of God there go I, so how can I condemn him?" (non-judgment of the person)

So as long as I have not judged the person himself by saying, "Look at that no-good thieving robber. He should be hung by his toes until he's dead!" I have saved myself from the final judgment because I have followed Jesus' command and not judged other people.
Then it seems like we are closer in our views than previously understood. However, what is wrong with calling sin, "sin"? Isn't that what scripture does and why we recognize it as wrong? (It is not 'sin' that condemns one, but, their refusal of God's forgiveness in Jesus Christ.)

Without God's standard, we risk simply adopting an ever-changing worldly standard - where everything eventually becomes 'right' and acceptable. Also, while we agree that our role is not to "condemn him," (we are to deal with him in the same manner as a loving parent deals with a child); ...We cannot simply ignore the behavior -- or condone it by reflecting on our own past indiscretions.
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