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Old 10-14-2013, 08:32 AM
 
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A. W. Tozer  "Truths that are compelled to stand alone never stand straight and are not likely to stand long. Truth is one but truths are many. Scriptural truths are interlocking and interdependent. A truth is rarely valid in isolation. A statement may be true in its relationship to other truths and less than true when separated from them." 

Within The Bible there are verses that seemingly contradict one another. For example, yesterday I was looking for guidance on wisdom. The first verse I read was James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. The next verse I read was Ecclesiastes 1:18 For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.

Now, I could have closed my Bible and determined these verses contradict one another and therefore The Bible is worthless. But I have been taught that apparent biblical tensions more often than not can be settled by a systematic hermeneutic exegesis of the verse, passage, even chapters and entire books. We can accomplish this in several ways. We can draw out meaning by analyzing the authorís intent, the context, the audience, the culture, the historical timeframe, etc. This is a valid and useful system. We can use commentaries, expositions and other study tools at our disposal. We can use a combination of the aforementioned. A side note though; commentaries possess the authorís view. A Pentecostal commentator may have a different interpretation than a Baptist.

What of those contradictory Bible verses? In James 1:5 we find the author writing of trials, temptations and perseverance in verses 1-4. He says we should count it joy when we fall into divers temptations for it works patience in us. In verse 5 he says to ask God for wisdom and in verse 6 to do so in faith, nothing wavering. In a nutshell, when trials, tribulations, and temptations come our way, weíre afforded the opportunity to turn to God for guidance and wisdom and He will provide abundantly. Rejoice!

Some scoffers argue King Solomon is not the author of Ecclesiastes but that has been proven false time and again. So, how could King Solomon, the wisest man who ever lived write in Ecclesiastes 1:18 For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow? Ecclesiastes is a favorite for atheists, humanists, cultists and skeptics because superficially it appears to contradict biblical truths. Here we need to draw deeply into Solomonís mindset. In verse 3 he writes, "What does a man gain by all the toil at which he toils under the sun?" He says this again in verse 9. "Under the sun" limits the book to this world only, and does not include revelation from God. He is writing of secular wisdom and knowledge of the natural man. King Solomon, the worldís wisest man, has learned from a lifetime accumulating the wealth, wisdom and knowledge of this world that itís all for naught, folly and emptiness without God.

We find that indeed these verses are not contradictory but complimentary. One admonishes us to seek wisdom from God; the other the consequences of not. A timely reminder and part of the interlocking, interrelated, interwoven relationship between the OT and NT.

-bartstarr1960
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,271 posts, read 5,489,845 times
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Default Different times, different views

Quote:
Originally Posted by bartstarr1960 View Post
A. W. Tozer  "Truths that are compelled to stand alone never stand straight and are not likely to stand long. Truth is one but truths are many. Scriptural truths are interlocking and interdependent. A truth is rarely valid in isolation. A statement may be true in its relationship to other truths and less than true when separated from them." 

Within The Bible there are verses that seemingly contradict one another. For example, yesterday I was looking for guidance on wisdom. The first verse I read was James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. The next verse I read was Ecclesiastes 1:18 For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.

Now, I could have closed my Bible and determined these verses contradict one another and therefore The Bible is worthless. But I have been taught that apparent biblical tensions more often than not can be settled by a systematic hermeneutic exegesis of the verse, passage, even chapters and entire books. We can accomplish this in several ways. We can draw out meaning by analyzing the author’s intent, the context, the audience, the culture, the historical timeframe, etc. This is a valid and useful system. We can use commentaries, expositions and other study tools at our disposal. We can use a combination of the aforementioned. A side note though; commentaries possess the author’s view. A Pentecostal commentator may have a different interpretation than a Baptist.

What of those contradictory Bible verses? In James 1:5 we find the author writing of trials, temptations and perseverance in verses 1-4. He says we should count it joy when we fall into divers temptations for it works patience in us. In verse 5 he says to ask God for wisdom and in verse 6 to do so in faith, nothing wavering. In a nutshell, when trials, tribulations, and temptations come our way, we’re afforded the opportunity to turn to God for guidance and wisdom and He will provide abundantly. Rejoice!

Some scoffers argue King Solomon is not the author of Ecclesiastes but that has been proven false time and again. So, how could King Solomon, the wisest man who ever lived write in Ecclesiastes 1:18 For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow? Ecclesiastes is a favorite for atheists, humanists, cultists and skeptics because superficially it appears to contradict biblical truths. Here we need to draw deeply into Solomon’s mindset. In verse 3 he writes, "What does a man gain by all the toil at which he toils under the sun?" He says this again in verse 9. "Under the sun" limits the book to this world only, and does not include revelation from God. He is writing of secular wisdom and knowledge of the natural man. King Solomon, the world’s wisest man, has learned from a lifetime accumulating the wealth, wisdom and knowledge of this world that it’s all for naught, folly and emptiness without God.

We find that indeed these verses are not contradictory but complimentary. One admonishes us to seek wisdom from God; the other the consequences of not. A timely reminder and part of the interlocking, interrelated, interwoven relationship between the OT and NT.

-bartstarr1960
Some of the scriptural contradictions may be explained that the authors wrote at different times, under different circumstances (in their existing world), and therefore had different views about the reasons behind the circumstances of which they wrote. The thread of biblical truth is only visible when ALL scripture is taken into account, not a verse quoted here or there.

As for the wise man, Solomon, we certainly have biblical record of a few insightful decisions made by him. However, he was not so wise in all of his political machinations in that he taxed his people so heavily that the nation fell apart after his death, causing a civil war and thousands of deaths. The misery that ensued and the split of the Jewish nation, was not much to commend Solomon's political wisdom---and his son, even less so.

Quote:
Representatives of the people went to the new king [Rehoboam] with the message, "Your father made our yoke heavy. Now therefore lighten the hard service of your father and his heavy yoke upon us, and we will serve you." (1 Kings 12:4 RSV).

The elders advised the new king to grant the people's request so that a rebellion would be avoided, but Rehoboam's young friends advised him to make their burden even greater (1 Kings 12:6-11). Rehoboam's fateful choice was the latter: "My father made your yoke heavy, but I will add to your yoke; my father chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions." (1 Kings 12:14)
Bible Study - Judah At War With Israel
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:02 AM
 
11,233 posts, read 11,256,867 times
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bart, this is a very simplistic response to the controversy that swirls around the glaring contradictions that literally pour out of the Bible.

The debate over eternal torment vs annihilation vs universalism has raged for 2000 years in hundreds of millions of debates between scholars across this span of time and will continue to rage for another 2000 years unabated you can be certain.

For those who who have the time to invest the video below is a fun example of a debate that fully depicts the Gordian Knot of a problem that the Bible simply does not answer. Correction: each party claims the Bible answers the question in their favor, to the dismay and disagreement of the other two parties. Some solution!


Hellbound debate - Universalism vs. Eternal Torment vs. Annihilationism - Unbelievable? - YouTube
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:51 AM
 
21,814 posts, read 16,678,731 times
Reputation: 8655
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartstarr1960 View Post

A. W. Tozer  "Truths that are compelled to stand alone never stand straight and are not likely to stand long. Truth is one but truths are many. Scriptural truths are interlocking and interdependent. A truth is rarely valid in isolation. A statement may be true in its relationship to other truths and less than true when separated from them." 

Within The Bible there are verses that seemingly contradict one another. For example, yesterday I was looking for guidance on wisdom. The first verse I read was James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. The next verse I read was Ecclesiastes 1:18 For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow.

Now, I could have closed my Bible and determined these verses contradict one another and therefore The Bible is worthless. But I have been taught that apparent biblical tensions more often than not can be settled by a systematic hermeneutic exegesis of the verse, passage, even chapters and entire books. We can accomplish this in several ways. We can draw out meaning by analyzing the authorís intent, the context, the audience, the culture, the historical timeframe, etc. This is a valid and useful system. We can use commentaries, expositions and other study tools at our disposal. We can use a combination of the aforementioned. A side note though; commentaries possess the authorís view. A Pentecostal commentator may have a different interpretation than a Baptist.

What of those contradictory Bible verses? In James 1:5 we find the author writing of trials, temptations and perseverance in verses 1-4. He says we should count it joy when we fall into divers temptations for it works patience in us. In verse 5 he says to ask God for wisdom and in verse 6 to do so in faith, nothing wavering. In a nutshell, when trials, tribulations, and temptations come our way, weíre afforded the opportunity to turn to God for guidance and wisdom and He will provide abundantly. Rejoice!

Some scoffers argue King Solomon is not the author of Ecclesiastes but that has been proven false time and again. So, how could King Solomon, the wisest man who ever lived write in Ecclesiastes 1:18 For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow? Ecclesiastes is a favorite for atheists, humanists, cultists and skeptics because superficially it appears to contradict biblical truths. Here we need to draw deeply into Solomonís mindset. In verse 3 he writes, "What does a man gain by all the toil at which he toils under the sun?" He says this again in verse 9. "Under the sun" limits the book to this world only, and does not include revelation from God. He is writing of secular wisdom and knowledge of the natural man. King Solomon, the worldís wisest man, has learned from a lifetime accumulating the wealth, wisdom and knowledge of this world that itís all for naught, folly and emptiness without God.

We find that indeed these verses are not contradictory but complimentary. One admonishes us to seek wisdom from God; the other the consequences of not. A timely reminder and part of the interlocking, interrelated, interwoven relationship between the OT and NT.

-bartstarr1960
Good post. The Bible does not contradict itself. Seeming and apparent contradictions are the result of a lack of understanding of what is said, and a failure to understand both the near and larger contexts.

Skeptics will often point to supposed contradictions between the four Gospel accounts. Many of these so called contradictions are cleared up by understanding that the gospel writers were selective in which details of the same event they chose to record, and that material was often arranged in a topical manner rather than in chronological order.
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Florida -
8,760 posts, read 10,834,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Good post. The Bible does not contradict itself. Seeming and apparent contradictions are the result of a lack of understanding of what is said, and a failure to understand both the near and larger contexts.

Skeptics will often point to supposed contradictions between the four Gospel accounts. Many of these so called contradictions are cleared up by understanding that the gospel writers were selective in which details of the same event they chose to record, and that material was often arranged in a topical manner rather than in chronological order.
TRUTH! Further, most Bible detractors who are the most vocal about "Bible Contradictions" ... are typically attempting to justify totally unBiblical positions and theological variations. Who are you going to listen to: the strident detractors .... OR the Inspired Word of God? -- Not a tough question to answer is it?

(BTW: James and Ecclesiastes don't contradict one another. James is speaking of Godly wisdom, while Ecclesiastes is speaking of worldly wisdom... but, I guess you essentially said that (?)
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:32 PM
 
5,733 posts, read 4,634,403 times
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Does The Bible Contradict Itself?

Yes!

Those who chalk them up to mere or apparent are themselves biased and manipulative in their interpretive 'skills.' Ambiguity lends itself to such varied 'interprtations.' It is not a lack of knowledge or understanding in those who see contradictions, for many experts in various fields come to such conclusions. The problem is with those who have an invested emotional and social interest in the Bible being without such contradictions or error.
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:36 PM
 
21,814 posts, read 16,678,731 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
TRUTH! Further, most Bible detractors who are the most vocal about "Bible Contradictions" ... are typically attempting to justify totally unBiblical positions and theological variations. Who are you going to listen to: the strident detractors .... OR the Inspired Word of God? -- Not a tough question to answer is it?

(BTW: James and Ecclesiastes don't contradict one another. James is speaking of Godly wisdom, while Ecclesiastes is speaking of worldly wisdom... but, I guess you essentially said that (?)
No, not a tough question to answer at all! I listen to the Inspired Word of God.

That was Bart however who mentioned James and Ecclesiastes.
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:13 PM
 
198 posts, read 209,681 times
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The bible does NOT contradict itself. It is ALL the inspired word of God. And God CANNOT lie. There are only different interpretations of the bible, some are right, others are wrong. When the Holy Bible is used as a whole to understand scripture, one can gain better knowledge of a particular scripture. Cherry picking will lead to contradictions.
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:32 PM
 
11,233 posts, read 11,256,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
TRUTH! Who are you going to listen to: the strident detractors .... OR the Inspired Word of God? -- Not a tough question to answer is it?
Same tired old defense every fundamentalist gives to detract from the obvious contradictions. "Who are you gonna believe, the 'inspired' word of God or your lyin' mind that God gave you to think and reason things out with?"

Try this: want a fool-proof way to get into heaven without worrying about all that believe on Jesus stuff and you can't live a sinful life and get into heaven stuff? I have the perfect verse for you and it comes straight from Jesus: Matthew 7:1

Quote:
Judge not, and you will not be judged.
Jesus promises that as long as you do not judge anyone you will never face judgement yourself. It's a virtual get into heaven free card. The only stipulation is you can't judge other people's actions.

Like my plumber friend always says, "Beautiful!"

Bet no "Inerrant Bible Fundamentlaist" touches this one with a 100-foot pole.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:14 PM
 
2,532 posts, read 2,016,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Same tired old defense every fundamentalist gives to detract from the obvious contradictions. "Who are you gonna believe, the 'inspired' word of God or your lyin' mind that God gave you to think and reason things out with?"

Try this: want a fool-proof way to get into heaven without worrying about all that believe on Jesus stuff and you can't live a sinful life and get into heaven stuff? I have the perfect verse for you and it comes straight from Jesus: Matthew 7:1



Jesus promises that as long as you do not judge anyone you will never face judgement yourself. It's a virtual get into heaven free card. The only stipulation is you can't judge other people's actions.

Like my plumber friend always says, "Beautiful!"

Bet no "Inerrant Bible Fundamentlaist" touches this one with a 100-foot pole.
Jesus was talking about superficial judgment because of not knowing the full spiritual and mental state of another and also of their final judgment before God. No one knows. But yes we can judge if a thing be wrong but we need wisdom to handle it properly.

We tend to project what we would do or not do and not take into account the differences of every soul. Therefore He said judge righteously and show mercy which are the weightier matters of the law.
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