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Old 10-14-2013, 02:02 PM
Status: "Watching America made small." (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,938 posts, read 13,475,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMurph View Post
Yep, and god is going to kill you too.
All of us, eventually, I reckon.
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:55 PM
 
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Personally, I do not follow the Scriptures according to Dallas Seminary and Lewis Sperry Chafer:

"To fully integrate adversity is to assimilate it into one’s own mind."


Indeed, there have been messengers’ who have fallen, but they weren’t angels! These false prophets have attempted to turn the truth of adversity into the lie called Satan through the blending of Christianity with the thoughts of Pagan philosophers, under the authority of the Emperors who required a national amalgamated religion to solidity their control over the people. Your adversary and the accusers of Christ, seek whom they can devour; the gullible. Apparently, everyone wants their own belief system (B.S.), as adversity resides within that great chasm of Religion, which separates humanity.

It’s the decaying tree of knowledge that no longer stands upright!

Last edited by Jerwade; 10-14-2013 at 07:09 PM..
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:25 PM
 
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It seems his basic strategy is lies and deception to get you in a position where he can then use force. We saw it in Hitler's Germany, and it looks like we are going to see it again. He is good at organizing our groups into political parties creating division in what's called the Hegelian Dialectic.. If you get two groups arguing back and forth they won't even be focusing on the real solution.

He is the Father of Lies, and ALL of the world's philosophies have his influence.. All are centered around the lack of Fear of God and that which appeals to our fleshly pride. This is why I'm convinced correct Biblical doctrine must eliminate all Pride and boasting.. The only thing that separates the Saved from the Lost is the Person of Jesus Christ.. Not of Works lest any Man should boast..

..Because the root of Satanic philosophy is Pride and Boasting... he appeals to our flesh.. So any doctrine that puffs up with pride has leaven and a little leaven leavens the whole lump. The Jews would have a ritual that they would get all of the leaven out of the house.. This is what it means spiritually.. I must decrease, and He must increase.
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:50 PM
 
11,274 posts, read 11,299,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartstarr1960 View Post
Correct Mike. Excellent presentation. Lest we forget:
1 John 5:19, We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.(ESV)
James 4:4a You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

The world is Satan's domain and we who are in and of the world are adulterers with him.

I know a former Satanist who became Christian. He sleeps with one Bible under his mattress and another under his pillow at all times. Seriously.
He told me unless our souls are firmly cemented in Biblical doctrine we are susceptible to Satan.
This is scary stuff. What I mean is that it is really scary that people still believe all this.
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
This is scary stuff. What I mean is that it is really scary that people still believe all this.
The difference between a form of Godliness/religion without the power and the rebirth/ power of His Kingdom is that Satan does not manifest himself overtly to the lost because they are already lost. Seek to enter the Kingdom and he will show up in spades to thwart you because the light means his downfall.

Those who overcome will have dominion over sin and his temptations. Satan has the wisdom to try and stop you from believing the truth. Therefor Jesus said, "Be wise as a serpent [know what he is up to and do not deny] but harmless as a dove." and "If a son should ask his father for a fish, will he give him a serpent?" Only the Satan would "whisper" [inaudible] that to you so as to cause you to fear entering the Kingdom. He is the father of fears and lies.

You can pretend or deny Jesus didn't say what He meant. You have the choice to establish your own philosophy [but at what cost] or Eternal Life based on the Lord of Glory/Truth who knows how things work in the invisible realm of spiritual matters but clearly evidenced by the fruit of good vs. evil that takes place in the world. Not all evil is inspired of Satan because mankind is capable of himself to do wrong.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:43 PM
 
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Hi mike555 :

I like some parts of your theory, other parts I think will need work.

Your theory of angels being arranged in rank.
From a historical context, I like your point that “God has arranged the angelic realm in differing ranks” though I am not sure how you arrived at this point using ephesians 1:21 which says “ Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come “ Still, I like this base point as it has fairly good historical basis in early texts as well. Well done on making an accurate point (though I am not sure of it's relevance - is it to indicate that an angel of "lower" rank and power was detained by the Prince of Persia or for some other reason?).

Your theory regarding an angel being “detained” by a non-human Prince of Persia
As this theory evolves, you might have your seminarians work on this part of your theory regarding how any non-human Persian Prince could detain an authorized and powerful angel of God against this powerful beings' will and how such a thing can happen. For example, the greek LXX in your quote does not use a word means “detained” and so this part of their model will need some changes, if, for some reason, it is an important point in your theory base theory as to how satan conducts his affairs. I think your seminarians can work on this part of your theory to improve it.


Your theories regarding Satan methods :
1) I think your idea that Satan works by influencing mankinds’ thinking is perfectly fine.


2) I thought Lewis Sperry Chafers theory that Satans greatest delusion is “the supposition that only such things as society considers evil could originate with the devil…” a bit narrow since, without more data, it simply feels like a discrete opinion. It can be helped with more explanation as to why he feels this way and it needs some supporting data to become more influential.


For example, Chafers theory that “… Satan's ambition has led him to undertake more than any creature could ever administer.” doesn’t, by itself, tell us what Satan’s ambition is. It is yourcommentary that “It is Satan’s intention to prove to God that he can rule this world in an orderly manner” that is helpful in describing a theoretical ambition (which Chafer needs to illuminate).


3) Your theory that Satan’s desire is “to prove to God” that Satan “can rule in an orderly manner” is quite unusual given Satan’s overt acts of disorder which seem to prove the opposite.


That is, this is another part of your theory regarding Satan’s motives and goals does not make sense.

If an intelligent Satan wants to prove he can rule in an orderly manner, then how does his rebellion against order and against rational and calm civility, help demonstrate the principle you say Satan wants to demonstrate? I don’t believe this premise will work as it stands and I think this part of your theory will need some tweaking and some data as well.

4) I think your point that Satan has other spirits that follow him is perfectly fine and is, historically, quite correct.


5) I like your point that divine revelation is important in combating the influence of Satan, especially as revelation is placed into the context of other principles discussed in Ephesians 6 such as “truth”,”righteousness”, “faith”, and “the spirit” (which is the word of God).

Is it correct to summarize your theory as to how Satan works by the single sentence that : “Satan works by influencing mankinds’ thinking” ?


Mike555; good luck as you improve this base theory and work out the "kinks" in it. I think parts were just fine and other parts can be made acceptable.



Clear
ειφυτζω
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:47 PM
 
11,274 posts, read 11,299,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
The difference between a form of Godliness/religion without the power and the rebirth/ power of His Kingdom is that Satan does not manifest himself overtly to the lost because they are already lost. Seek to enter the Kingdom and he will show up in spades to thwart you because the light means his downfall.

Those who overcome will have dominion over sin and his temptations. Satan has the wisdom to try and stop you from believing the truth. Therefor Jesus said, "Be wise as a serpent [know what he is up to and do not deny] but harmless as a dove." and "If a son should ask his father for a fish, will he give him a serpent?" Only the Satan would "whisper" [inaudible] that to you so as to cause you to fear entering the Kingdom. He is the father of fears and lies.

You can pretend or deny Jesus didn't say what He meant. You have the choice to establish your own philosophy [but at what cost] or Eternal Life based on the Lord of Glory/Truth who knows how things work in the invisible realm of spiritual matters but clearly evidenced by the fruit of good vs. evil that takes place in the world. Not all evil is inspired of Satan because mankind is capable of himself to do wrong.
Yes but let's be realistic. If satan and his minions are real and all over the place, they have been observing my denial, even mockery of him/them. So why don't they attack me to prove they are real?

Come on, satan! Bring it on! I'm not afraid of you!

Now if I am attacked by a demon after issuing that challenge I'll report back forthrightly and honestly about what happened. But I expect absolutely nothing to happen to me because

SATAN AND DEMONS ARE JUST FIGMENTS OF THE IMAGINATION.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Yes but let's be realistic. If satan and his minions are real and all over the place, they have been observing my denial, even mockery of him/them. So why don't they attack me to prove they are real?
They probably have.
Quote:
SATAN AND DEMONS ARE JUST FIGMENTS OF THE IMAGINATION.

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools


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Old 10-14-2013, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The realm of the supernatural is invisible to us. If God were to open our eyes so that we could see what is going on all around us in that realm, we would be shocked by what we saw. The Book of Daniel chapter 10 records the angel Gabriel's account to Daniel in which he was delayed for twenty-one days from coming to Daniel in response to his prayer by the prince of Persia who had detained him. The prince of Persia refers not to a human ruler, for no human could detain an angel, but to a fallen angel under Satan's command who intercepted Gabriel in order to prevent him from completing his mission. The arch angel Michael came to his aid so that he could come to Daniel with his message.
God has arranged the angelic realm in differing ranks referred to as ''rule, authority, power, and dominion'' (Eph. 1:21). Gabriel and Michael have been assigned authority over angels who administer God's affairs for the nation Israel (cf. Michael in Dan. 10:21; 12:1; Jude 9). In imitation Satan has also apparently assigned high-ranking demons to positions of authority over each kingdom. The prince of the Persian kingdom was a Satanic representative assigned to Persia. [The Bible Knowledge Commentary, Old Testament, An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty, p. 1366].

But so far as mankind is concerned, the battlefield of the spiritual warfare in which we are involved is fought in the soul. Satan's attacks on mankind involve influencing man's thinking. Satan seeks to blind man to God's revelation of the truth by means of the lies and deceptions which he has woven into his cosmic system which deceives the world. Lewis Sperry Chafer describes Satan's plan as follows.

Next to the lie itself, the greatest delusion Satan imposes---reaching to all unsaved and to a large proportion of Christians---is the supposition that only such things as society considers evil could originate with the devil---if indeed, there be any devil to originate anything. It is not the reason of man, but the revelation of God, which points out that governments, morals, education, art, commercialism, vast enterprises and organizations, and much of religious activity are included in the cosmos diabolicus. That is, the system which Satan has constructed includes all the good which he can incorporate into it and be consistent in the thing he aims to accomplish. A serious question arises whether the presence of gross evil in the world is due to Satan's intention to have it so, or whether it indicates Satan's inability to execute all he has designed. The probability is great that Satan's ambition has led him to undertake more than any creature could ever administer. Revelation declares that the whole cosmos-system must be annihilated---not its evil alone, but all that is in it, both good and bad. God will incorporate nothing of Satan's failure into that Kingdom which He will set up in the earth. The cosmos diabolicus must be ''broken in pieces'' and become like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors which the wind carries away, and all this before the Smiting Stone ---Christ in His return to earth---will set up a kingdom which shall fill the whole earth (Dan. 2:34-35, 44-45). [Systematic Theology, Lewis Sperry Chafer, vol. 2, p. 100-101]
It is Satan's intention to prove to God that he can rule this world in an orderly manner. Since the fall of man, and until the return of Christ, Satan is the ruler of this world as stated in John 12:31; 14:30; and 6:11. He is called the prince of the power of the air in Ephesians 2:2. Satan deceives the nations as stated in Revelation 20:3,8. Satan influences rulers as in 1 Chronicles 21:1-5.

Satan is a creature and can therefore only be in one place at a time. But he has a vast number of fallen angels (demons) who follow him and carry out his plans in human history. All the world is under the deception of Satan's plan which is carried out by his demons. It is only by means of divine revelation as revealed in the Word of God that the believer in Jesus Christ can be protected from Satanic deception.
Ephesians 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. 11] Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12] For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13] Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. 14] Stand firm therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15] and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16] in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17] And take up the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
Only by availing himself of God's provisions can the believer avoid being taken in by the devil's schemes. The believer is never to go on the offensive against Satan, but is to take a defensive position by standing in the truth of God's Word.
James 4:7 Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
Mike555, I say this respectfully, but you and your line of thought is wrong.

Satan is the Adversary, ONLY! Adversary to the purpose of God. Adversary to the purpose of Messiah. When Jesus said to Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan, was He saying Peter was Satan or possessed by Satan? Or was He saying that Peter was attempting to thwart the purpose of Messiah?

Bless you, my friend.

PS I did further checking, and no the Council of Nicea did NOT establish a canon of Christian writings. However, Constantine DID commission his pal Eusebius to create a canon of scripture. Eusebius himself was apparently ambivalent about Revelation and whether or not is was Apostolic. I think you and I disagree about the validity of Revelation. I continue to research the Apocalypse of Peter, which appears to be an interesting case.

Again, bless you, my friend.
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
5,178 posts, read 3,906,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Yes but let's be realistic. If satan and his minions are real and all over the place, they have been observing my denial, even mockery of him/them. So why don't they attack me to prove they are real?

Come on, satan! Bring it on! I'm not afraid of you!

Now if I am attacked by a demon after issuing that challenge I'll report back forthrightly and honestly about what happened. But I expect absolutely nothing to happen to me because

SATAN AND DEMONS ARE JUST FIGMENTS OF THE IMAGINATION.
No you wont! Because you will have been hauled off to eternal torment
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