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Old 10-14-2013, 11:57 PM
 
2,532 posts, read 2,023,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Yes but let's be realistic. If satan and his minions are real and all over the place, they have been observing my denial, even mockery of him/them. So why don't they attack me to prove they are real?

Come on, satan! Bring it on! I'm not afraid of you!

Now if I am attacked by a demon after issuing that challenge I'll report back forthrightly and honestly about what happened. But I expect absolutely nothing to happen to me because

SATAN AND DEMONS ARE JUST FIGMENTS OF THE IMAGINATION.
You can thank God that He has not lifted that veil for you to see. He knows your frame and that you could not handle it. But the day may come.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:07 AM
 
20,476 posts, read 9,886,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
SATAN AND DEMONS ARE JUST FIGMENTS OF THE IMAGINATION.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartstarr1960 View Post
Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.
A matter of fact:

"Satan and demons are just figments of the imagination; professing themselves to be wise, they became fools."
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:14 AM
 
11,300 posts, read 11,316,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
You can thank God that He has not lifted that veil for you to see. He knows your frame and that you could not handle it. But the day may come.
I am the first to admit I don't have the stomach to confront real demons. But I don't have to worry about having to confront them, do I, because they aren't real. If they were real they would be attacking me right this second for making fools of them in the eyes of you good people around here, some of which are just salivating at the prospect of me getting my butt kicked by demons for being so proud and egotistical and cocksure that nothing will happen to me. But I'm happy as a lark, confident that God is not holding them back and that "if Lord, you are holding them back then let them go as you let them go on Job. Make an example of me if you really allow such things and if they are really out there. I don't consort with them, but I am not afraid of them. Let them take their best shot at me. I'm waiting for them."

So there's my challenge to the demons if they are watching. They know where to find me. Let them come and get me. In a week from now when I'm reporting back that nothing happened to me, then you'll have one of two decisions to make.

1. continue with this ridiculous belief that demons are lurking around every corner waiting to drag Christians down to hell

or

2. look at the proof that a Christian can call them CS's (the first word is chicken ) and have absolutely no fear of them simply because they are no more real than vampires or zombies and then reevaluate whether or not you want to continue believing in all this rubbish.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:16 AM
 
22,032 posts, read 16,785,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clear lens View Post
Hi mike555 :

Your theory of angels being arranged in rank.
From a historical context, I like your point that “God has arranged the angelic realm in differing ranks” though I am not sure how you arrived at this point using ephesians 1:21 which says “ Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come “ Still, I like this base point as it has fairly good historical basis in early texts as well. Well done on making an accurate point (though I am not sure of it's relevance - is it to indicate that an angel of "lower" rank and power was detained by the Prince of Persia or for some other reason?).
Ephesians 1:21 simply mentions that there are different ranks among the angels. That there are different ranks and duties among the angels is made clear in the Bible.

Quote:
Your theory regarding an angel being “detained” by a non-human Prince of Persia
As this theory evolves, you might have your seminarians work on this part of your theory regarding how any non-human Persian Prince could detain an authorized and powerful angel of God against this powerful beings' will and how such a thing can happen. For example, the greek LXX in your quote does not use a word means “detained” and so this part of their model will need some changes, if, for some reason, it is an important point in your theory base theory as to how satan conducts his affairs. I think your seminarians can work on this part of your theory to improve it.
It's not a theory. Simply read Daniel 9:13. Gabriel was prevented from coming to Daniel for 21 days by the prince of Persia. No human being could detain, delay, prevent, withstand, an angel from carrying out his mission. Only another angel could do so.

Quote:
Your theories regarding Satan methods :
1) I think your idea that Satan works by influencing mankinds’ thinking is perfectly fine.


2) I thought Lewis Sperry Chafers theory that Satans greatest delusion is “the supposition that only such things as society considers evil could originate with the devil…” a bit narrow since, without more data, it simply feels like a discrete opinion. It can be helped with more explanation as to why he feels this way and it needs some supporting data to become more influential.


For example, Chafers theory that “… Satan's ambition has led him to undertake more than any creature could ever administer.” doesn’t, by itself, tell us what Satan’s ambition is. It is yourcommentary that “It is Satan’s intention to prove to God that he can rule this world in an orderly manner” that is helpful in describing a theoretical ambition (which Chafer needs to illuminate).

I only quoted one paragraph out of 14 pages that Chafer devoted to 'Satan's Method' in chapter nine of volume two of his Systematic Theology. Chafer devoted six chapters in all to Satan. If you want to learn more about what he wrote then get hold of his work and read it.

Quote:
3) Your theory that Satan’s desire is “to prove to God” that Satan “can rule in an orderly manner” is quite unusual given Satan’s overt acts of disorder which seem to prove the opposite.
Quote:

That is, this is another part of your theory regarding Satan’s motives and goals does not make sense.

If an intelligent Satan wants to prove he can rule in an orderly manner, then how does his rebellion against order and against rational and calm civility, help demonstrate the principle you say Satan wants to demonstrate? I don’t believe this premise will work as it stands and I think this part of your theory will need some tweaking and some data as well.
Satan rebelled against God's order. But as the ruler of this world he is attempting to impose his own order and make good his boast as expressed in his five 'I wills' in Isaiah 14:13-14. There are those who say that the passage does not refer to Satan, but Satan was the power behind the throne of the king of Babylon. Satan desires to be like God and to rule over all the angels and over the earth. At this present time he is the ruler of this world as the Bible states. Satan is trying hard to stay out of the lake of fire which God sentenced him to and which will be carried out after the end of the Millennium. His assumption can only be that if he can make good his boast then his sentence will be overturned.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:56 AM
 
22,032 posts, read 16,785,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckmann View Post
Mike555, I say this respectfully, but you and your line of thought is wrong.

Satan is the Adversary, ONLY! Adversary to the purpose of God. Adversary to the purpose of Messiah. When Jesus said to Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan, was He saying Peter was Satan or possessed by Satan? Or was He saying that Peter was attempting to thwart the purpose of Messiah?

Bless you, my friend.

PS I did further checking, and no the Council of Nicea did NOT establish a canon of Christian writings. However, Constantine DID commission his pal Eusebius to create a canon of scripture. Eusebius himself was apparently ambivalent about Revelation and whether or not is was Apostolic. I think you and I disagree about the validity of Revelation. I continue to research the Apocalypse of Peter, which appears to be an interesting case.

Again, bless you, my friend.

Chuckmann, I'm not sure why you say my line of reasoning is wrong since what I said was that Satan is the ruler of this world, and that he deceives the world, and that believers are involved in a spiritual warfare, and I backed up what I said with Scripture.

I can't address the part about Revelation since it is off topic.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:29 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,775,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
This is scary stuff. What I mean is that it is really scary that people still believe all this.
Incredible. People believe all sorts of strange things. The guy who uses the bible as an amulet to ward off Satan believes in the power of superstition.
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Old 10-15-2013, 07:46 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,197,396 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Yes but let's be realistic. If satan and his minions are real and all over the place, they have been observing my denial, even mockery of him/them. So why don't they attack me to prove they are real?

Come on, satan! Bring it on! I'm not afraid of you!

Now if I am attacked by a demon after issuing that challenge I'll report back forthrightly and honestly about what happened. But I expect absolutely nothing to happen to me because

SATAN AND DEMONS ARE JUST FIGMENTS OF THE IMAGINATION.
So why don't they attack .... because that would be "a house divided against itself"
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Old 10-15-2013, 07:56 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,197,396 times
Reputation: 1308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Chuckmann, I'm not sure why you say my line of reasoning is wrong since what I said was that Satan is the ruler of this world, and that he deceives the world, and that believers are involved in a spiritual warfare, and I backed up what I said with Scripture.

I can't address the part about Revelation since it is off topic.
Well Mike, your line of reasoning is off for a different reason .... crass literalism of OT in order prevent the church's hope of Jesus' one and only return to be Judge.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:40 AM
 
284 posts, read 253,153 times
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REGARDING THE CONCLUSION THAT EPHESIANS 1:21 REFERS TO ANGELS OF DIFFERING RANK


Clear lens said in post # 19 : “ From a historical context, I like your point that “God has arranged the angelic realm in differing ranks” though I am not sure how you arrived at this point using ephesians 1:21 which saysFar above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come

Mike555 replied in post # 24 : “ Ephesians 1:21 simply mentions that there are different ranks among the angels. That there are different ranks and duties among the angels is made clear in the Bible.




Ηι Mike555 :


Perhaps you could at least consider that Eph 1:21 was referring to Christ, rather than specifically referring to angels. Consider vs 20 as part of the context for verse 21. It seems to be speaking of Christ, rather than of angels :

Eph 1:20-21 : 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come.

Neither English nor base Greek texts change the subject from Christ, to Angels between verse 20 and vs 21. My point is that even though you say your theory is “biblical” because the words and letters of your example "came from a bible", it does not mean automatically that your logic and reason underlying the concepts and theories you created from any errors of your own thoughts; logic; and reason are “biblical”.

Perhaps you could at least consider the possibility that vs 21 is a reference to Christ, rather than the angels…? IF, you can do this mental exercise with this verse, perhaps you can consider a similar exercise with other points you make in your post; in this theory; and on the forum generally?

In any case, I wish you the best of luck in your theorizing and in coming to accurate conclusions during your journey in this life.


Clear

τωφυειω
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:51 AM
 
11,300 posts, read 11,316,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
So why don't they attack .... because that would be "a house divided against itself"
I've never had someone call me a demon in a more polite and veiled manner.
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