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Old 05-02-2013, 04:46 PM
 
1,867 posts, read 1,524,459 times
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Matthew 5:18

I came not to take away the law but to fufill the law.

Old law taken away things like animal offerings, etc.----Ephesians 2:8 and John 1:17.

New law replace the old law with law more strict----You have heard it been said but now
I say unto you....Matthew 5.

Grace vs. the Law is comparing the old law to the new law.

Grace is just lawless with old law not new law---Romans 6:1.

Shall we continue in sin ...implies that one must obey God to get grace.

If obeying God is blood boasting only then we calling Paul a false teacher---Romans 6:1.

If obeying God is the 10 commandments only then we calling Matthew a false
teacher-----Matthew 5:17-20.

If trusting God is blood boasting only then we calling Paul a false teacher---Romans 6:1.

If trusting God is in the obeying of the 10 commandments only then we calling Matthew
a false teacher-----Matthew 5:17-20.

If a relationship with God is a loving heart only then we calling John a false
teacher---1 John 2:15.

If a relationship with God is a beautiful heart only then we calling Paul a false
teacher---2 Cor. 6:14-17.

If a relationship with God requires us to buddy with everybody then we calling
Paul a false teacher----2 Cor. 6:14-17.

If a relationship with Jesus requires us to be friends with everybody then we calling
Matthew a false teacher----Matthew 7:6.

If Christianity is self wise wisdom then we calling Isaiah a false teacher--Isaiah 64:6.

If Christianity is self wise expertise then we calling Jeremiah a false teacher---Jeremiah 10:23.

Water baptism still the book to bring God's people together---John 3:5 and Amos 3:3.

Modest attire still the book to bring God's people together---1 Peter 3:3 and Amos 3:3.

Holy parties is still the book to bring God's people together---1 Peter 4:1-4 and Amos 3:3.

You get the point God's wisdom brings 100% bible believers together ONLY---Amos 3:3 and
John 8:31.
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Florida -
10,213 posts, read 14,829,894 times
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It seems like your question/point is: "Does the grace and truth that came through Jesus Christ replace the law (justice) that was given to Moses?" (Jn 1:16-17). (Please advise if that is not your question/point).

The answer is 'yes' for believers who avail themselves to God's Amazing grace; ... and 'no' for non-believers, who remain under the law ('Justice'). The law's purpose is to reveal one's sinful rebellion ... and need for Jesus Christ and God's grace" (Rom 5:20)... leading the lost to believe in and trust Christ for the "Salvation that comes by faith through grace" (Eph 2:8). Those without Christ, remain under the law and the 'justice' it conveys.

Gal. 3:19-26 clarifies the relationship between the law, sin and grace (mostly for non-believers): ----
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. ---26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Rom. 6:13-15 further clarifies the ongoing relationship between the law, sin and grace ... (mostly for believers): 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Last edited by jghorton; 05-02-2013 at 05:51 PM..
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:55 PM
 
Location: USA
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"He who loves another has fulfilled the law" and "Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love [is] the fulfillment of the law." Rom 13: 8 & 10

"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." " Gal 5: 14
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:30 PM
 
Location: New England
37,337 posts, read 28,285,273 times
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The unconditional Grace of God when believed on, activates the law of the spirit of life within us.

The unconditional over abounding grace of God truly is a wonderful thing. It sets you free from the inside.
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,440 posts, read 12,783,448 times
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Grace fulfilled the Law.

Matt. 5:17-18

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished”.

Read more: What does it mean that Jesus fulfilled the law, but did not abolish it?
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,917,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Grace fulfilled the Law.

Matt. 5:17-18

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished”.

Read more: What does it mean that Jesus fulfilled the law, but did not abolish it?
Good source too, I especially like, "If, however, the law of Moses bears the same relationship to men today, in terms of its binding status, then it was not fulfilled, and Jesus failed at what He came to do."
The purpose of "atonement" in a nutshell.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:54 PM
 
4,217 posts, read 2,785,130 times
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Because Paul was a raised as a Jew he saw the law as a Jew of his time. But Jesus saw the law differently than the Jews of His time. Jesus supported the law because He knew the secrets of the kingdom of God and only reveals it to those who support the law of the Lord.

Christ said; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. It is these you ought to have practiced without neglecting the others.

So justice mercy and faith are part of the law of the Lord, but Paul did not know this and it shows his teaching is flawed.

"until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:50 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,917,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacegiver View Post

So justice mercy and faith are part of the law of the Lord, but Paul did not know this and it shows his teaching is flawed.
Noted in another thread:
What does it mean that Jesus fulfilled the law, but did not abolish it?

Paul did know that and it is not Paul's teaching that is flawed.
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Old 05-03-2013, 02:53 AM
 
65 posts, read 76,726 times
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As much as I believe Christ fulfilled the law and believers are no longer under the law, I would like to ask the proponents of the law, who was the law given to? Jews or the entire world at that time? Even if the law is still binding, then it should be to the Jews only, but thank God it is not binding for those who choose to live a life of love.
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Old 05-03-2013, 03:23 AM
 
376 posts, read 419,589 times
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Fulfilled doesn't mean the law is done away.
Jesus fulfilled simply means He explained the law correctly. The opposite of fulfilling the law is destroying the law. It's a Hebrew idiom.

Neither does grace mean the laws are void. In the OT breaking the law had to be paid for in some way. Sacrifice of an animal or paying back double what was stolen for example. Being under grace means that those payments have been made (by Jesus). But obviously that doesn't mean it's now allowed to steal.
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