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Old 08-20-2016, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Australia
481 posts, read 184,026 times
Reputation: 126

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Adam and Eve were created to live on a paradise earth forever, they were not immortal nor did they have an immortal soul.

This is God's promise: Do you think that Jehovah God’s purpose for people to live in an earthly paradise will ever be realized? “I have spoken,” God declares, “and I will also carry it out.” (Isaiah 46:9-11; 55:11)

If the paradise earth promise is removed, then it would mean that God made a bad decision in the first place; however with the establishment of God's Heavenly Kingdom, and announced at the Last Supper before Jesus was taken to be murdered, there is an offering for 144000 "Slave Class" that would be in this Kingdom and rule as Kings Princes over the ones in the paradise earth.

If you think that there is a literal place of fire and torment for the baddies, rather than hell being the common grave, think about this:

God was the only creator of all things, and through his only begotten son, Jesus all things came about. So, Adam and Eve were the last of the creation of God, which can only mean that the hell of fire and brimstone that Christendom claims exists would have to be also created by God before Adam and Eve.

Doesn't that then mean God created man and women with malicious intent?

There is no hell, these is no soul to go to hell, and when Satan and his angels were cast out of the heavenly realm they were "Cast to the vicinity of the earth" not into any fire or abyss.

Jesus ransom sacrifice was for the redemption of the first sin of man, and it applies to all mankind if they wish to come to the True God and obey his commands.

The thief that died beside Jesus was told by Christ that "You will be in Paradise with me", the heavenly Kingdom did not begin until Jesus was raised from the dead. Eden means Paradise.

"The Great Crowd" of Revelation are the ones that aspire to life on a Paradise Earth in the near future.
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Old 08-20-2016, 09:45 PM
Status: "Watching America made small." (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,975 posts, read 13,492,752 times
Reputation: 11726
Good grief.

Somebody's gotta cut off the flow of this Kool-Aid.
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Old 08-20-2016, 09:56 PM
 
20,461 posts, read 9,873,444 times
Reputation: 1687
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Good grief.

Somebody's gotta cut off the flow of this Kool-Aid.
The children tried with their lemonade stands.
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Old 08-20-2016, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,978 posts, read 22,188,818 times
Reputation: 10733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marakorpa View Post
Adam and Eve were created to live on a paradise earth forever, they were not immortal nor did they have an immortal soul.

This is God's promise: Do you think that Jehovah God’s purpose for people to live in an earthly paradise will ever be realized? “I have spoken,” God declares, “and I will also carry it out.” (Isaiah 46:9-11; 55:11)

If the paradise earth promise is removed, then it would mean that God made a bad decision in the first place; however with the establishment of God's Heavenly Kingdom, and announced at the Last Supper before Jesus was taken to be murdered, there is an offering for 144000 "Slave Class" that would be in this Kingdom and rule as Kings Princes over the ones in the paradise earth.

If you think that there is a literal place of fire and torment for the baddies, rather than hell being the common grave, think about this:

God was the only creator of all things, and through his only begotten son, Jesus all things came about. So, Adam and Eve were the last of the creation of God, which can only mean that the hell of fire and brimstone that Christendom claims exists would have to be also created by God before Adam and Eve.

Doesn't that then mean God created man and women with malicious intent?

There is no hell, these is no soul to go to hell, and when Satan and his angels were cast out of the heavenly realm they were "Cast to the vicinity of the earth" not into any fire or abyss.

Jesus ransom sacrifice was for the redemption of the first sin of man, and it applies to all mankind if they wish to come to the True God and obey his commands.

The thief that died beside Jesus was told by Christ that "You will be in Paradise with me", the heavenly Kingdom did not begin until Jesus was raised from the dead. Eden means Paradise.

"The Great Crowd" of Revelation are the ones that aspire to life on a Paradise Earth in the near future.
Well, that's one way to look at it.
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Old 08-21-2016, 12:04 AM
 
40,212 posts, read 26,833,383 times
Reputation: 6060
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Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I don't know of "many" that teach that. I can only think of one offhand. Do you know of others? At any rate, it would certainly make sense to me that greater obedience and faithfulness will lead to greater rewards, not to mention that fact that Jesus did say that He intended to reward every man according to his works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
And he showed the reward would be the same in the illustration of the paid workers in the field. They worked different hours yet received the same pay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I don't interpret that the same way you do. They worked different hours, yet they were both equally faithful in serving their employer once they were called to do so. If some of the workers (regardless of what time of day they were hired) had neglected their responsibilities for three or four hours out of the day and had just loafed around while the others around them were hard at work, I doubt their employer would have felt the need to pay them all equally. If a person who accepts the gospel of Jesus Christ late in life is true and faithful to his Savior for the years he has remaining, I believe that he will have the same reward as someone who was a Christian from an early age. I don't think that's the same thing as saying that the Lord doesn't care about our efforts to follow Him and keep His commandments, and that we're all going to receive the same reward regardless of how we lived our lives.
Reward, schmeward! The reward/punishment meme is the most primitive one in existence. Most of us grow out of it early on and begin to use emulation of a role model and remain there for most of our adult lives. We just change role models as we mature. A fortunate few who achieve full maturity incorporate their values and principles into their inner core, like Jesus, and follow them in life no matter what consequences they evoke. This focus on reward (or punishment) should long ago have been bred out of our species.
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Old 08-21-2016, 12:53 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,963 posts, read 5,018,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanSalvador View Post
Raised a Christian, it's been years since I went to church, but I remember always hearing that only a very, very small number of people will go to heaven and this number includes everyone who ever existed. that sounds like playing the lottery, so I will go to hell I guess. Ever thought of what would happen if you are a faithful Christian, go to church, read the bible, but in the end you still go to hell? Why? Simply because you weren't holy enough.
Very few are born to be overcomers I think, I know that I am not an overcomer but I try, and realistically, I really hope there is a man out there way the heck better than me.


I would hope there were normal people I mean.


But the Zoe higher kingdom is to look at a city with a special place inside that city, and whether you be inside that city or not, there you are amongst those in the end after things have settled, albeit outside of the city, still saved.


They maybe called dogs without the great city but yet, there they are.


They may not have the right to enter into the city, but there they be without the city.


I look at over comers as I would look at a High priest amongst a nation where only he has entered through the veil for the people.


He is one in a million, and although you may hear the words,'' He shall never enter the kingdom of heaven.''


Consider that this is talking about the higher Zoe Kingdom of heaven and that the Temple itself is only built in a fashion that we can know what the kingdom of heaven is in 3 sections.


Just because one is found in the court weeping and gnashing they teeth doesn't mean that God doesn't love you, rather that I will weep and gnash my teeth because I couldn't enter into the great city.


But I am still saved, albeit, without the city and so I weep at what could have been, I gnash my teeth at what could have been.


Just opinion of course.
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Old 08-21-2016, 01:28 AM
 
Location: Australia
481 posts, read 184,026 times
Reputation: 126
Something has to be done, mankind cannot get himself out of this hell hole that the world is becoming. Science and medicine have advanced over the years, but they are still behind the eight ball. Every step forward in the cure of disease is over taken by more, different and more fatal diseases.

Anyone that feels that the world "will be all right" is hiding from the truth, of course, I am talking about the Bible, the one Workshop Manual for Christians.

God is one God. And being One God he had only one set of rules and regulations for the Christian to follow, not the 40,000 of Christendom in all its variations. All they are proving is that mankind will never get it right by themselves.

There is only one truth.
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Old 08-21-2016, 02:17 AM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,963 posts, read 5,018,160 times
Reputation: 1523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marakorpa View Post
Something has to be done, mankind cannot get himself out of this hell hole that the world is becoming. Science and medicine have advanced over the years, but they are still behind the eight ball. Every step forward in the cure of disease is over taken by more, different and more fatal diseases.

Anyone that feels that the world "will be all right" is hiding from the truth, of course, I am talking about the Bible, the one Workshop Manual for Christians.

God is one God. And being One God he had only one set of rules and regulations for the Christian to follow, not the 40,000 of Christendom in all its variations. All they are proving is that mankind will never get it right by themselves.

There is only one truth.

In the mid 19th century a civil war last a couple decades in china and it killed 50 million. Hitler I think killed 100 million when looking at the war causing that much death through circumstance of the war.


If death stopped happening, we all die.


I think about that quite often, The world may be able to hold 10 billion people, but can it sustain ten billion meat eaters?


If the world can't handle 7 billion, wonder how bad it will be at 50 billion and that is just a few years.


Wouldn't we kill the Earth?
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Old 08-21-2016, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,978 posts, read 22,188,818 times
Reputation: 10733
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Reward, schmeward! The reward/punishment meme is the most primitive one in existence. Most of us grow out of it early on and begin to use emulation of a role model and remain there for most of our adult lives. We just change role models as we mature. A fortunate few who achieve full maturity incorporate their values and principles into their inner core, like Jesus, and follow them in life no matter what consequences they evoke. This focus on reward (or punishment) should long ago have been bred out of our species.
I know this may be difficult for you to understand, Mystic, but as "primitive" as the notion may be, Jesus Christ did speak of rewarding the obedient. Now, this doesn't necessarily imply that those who choose to focus on emulating Jesus are doing so with all that much thought as to the consequences of their actions. I know that my own focus on "what reward will this choice or behavior bring me?" is virtually nil. I choose to try to live in such a way that my Father in Heaven and His Son, Jesus Christ, will recognize my deep and sincere love for them. Because of what I believe about Jesus Christ, I am drawn to try to emulate Him in all I say and do. Much of the time, I fall miserably short, but when I do, I absolutely do not find myself thinking, "Oh, crap. That reward I was striving for just slipped out of my fingers." The fact that I am striving to be my personal best does not mean that it is the thought of a reward that motivates me. Still, the fact remains that Jesus did speak of rewards being given to each person "according to their works." And nothing you or anybody else can say will change that.
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Old 08-21-2016, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
2,186 posts, read 795,856 times
Reputation: 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
On the surface, they may appear to be doing precisely that. What I'm really saying is that it's pretty much possible to support either position (that most will be saved or that only a few will be), depending upon which verses you choose to focus on and which ones you choose to ignore. In trying to understand God's plan of salvation for mankind, I think we have to take more than a superficial look at the scriptures.
A red flag that the bible is fiction would be that it is difficult to understand its meaning.
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