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Old 10-14-2013, 08:26 PM
 
23 posts, read 79,831 times
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Raised a Christian, it's been years since I went to church, but I remember always hearing that only a very, very small number of people will go to heaven and this number includes everyone who ever existed. that sounds like playing the lottery, so I will go to hell I guess. Ever thought of what would happen if you are a faithful Christian, go to church, read the bible, but in the end you still go to hell? Why? Simply because you weren't holy enough.
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
28,088 posts, read 29,930,398 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanSalvador View Post
Raised a Christian, it's been years since I went to church, but I remember always hearing that only a very, very small number of people will go to heaven and this number includes everyone who ever existed. that sounds like playing the lottery, so I will go to hell I guess. Ever thought of what would happen if you are a faithful Christian, go to church, read the bible, but in the end you still go to hell? Why? Simply because you weren't holy enough.
Well, some Christian denominations do teach that. Mine doesn't. Mine teaches that pretty much everyone who has ever lives will ultimately go to Heaven. I suspect you're maybe thinking of Matthew 7:13-14, which states, "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." But consider, too, 1 Corinthians 15:22 which says, "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive," and Philippians 2:10-11, which reads, "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

If all shall be made alive through Jesus Christ and if every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ, then surely more than just a handful will make it into Heaven. Perhaps Matthew 7:13-14 is referring to those who have lived in such a way that they will receive every blessing that God has set aside for them. Scripture does tell us that Jesus will "reward every man according to his works." If that is the case, then maybe the "few" you have been told will end up in Heaven are really just the "few" who will receive the greatest heavenly rewards. If there are varying degrees of commitment, obedience, righteousness and faithfulness, then why not various degrees of blessings in Heaven?
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:50 PM
 
112 posts, read 117,629 times
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Somebody needs to post chapter and verse that says all good people go to heaven.


I want to see that one.
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:00 PM
 
400 posts, read 601,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Well, some Christian denominations do teach that. Mine doesn't. Mine teaches that pretty much everyone who has ever lives will ultimately go to Heaven. I suspect you're maybe thinking of Matthew 7:13-14, which states, "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." But consider, too, 1 Corinthians 15:22 which says, "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive," and Philippians 2:10-11, which reads, "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

If all shall be made alive through Jesus Christ and if every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ, then surely more than just a handful will make it into Heaven. Perhaps Matthew 7:13-14 is referring to those who have lived in such a way that they will receive every blessing that God has set aside for them. Scripture does tell us that Jesus will "reward every man according to his works." If that is the case, then maybe the "few" you have been told will end up in Heaven are really just the "few" who will receive the greatest heavenly rewards. If there are varying degrees of commitment, obedience, righteousness and faithfulness, then why not various degrees of blessings in Heaven?
Are you saying that the verses you quoted are saying different things?
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:50 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
28,088 posts, read 29,930,398 times
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Originally Posted by bartstarr1960 View Post
Are you saying that the verses you quoted are saying different things?
On the surface, they may appear to be doing precisely that. What I'm really saying is that it's pretty much possible to support either position (that most will be saved or that only a few will be), depending upon which verses you choose to focus on and which ones you choose to ignore. In trying to understand God's plan of salvation for mankind, I think we have to take more than a superficial look at the scriptures.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:08 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,165,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMurph View Post
Somebody needs to post chapter and verse that says all good people go to heaven.


I want to see that one.
Okay, you read it here:

All good people go to heaven.

Thus it is, was, and shall ever be.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:23 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,220 posts, read 26,406,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanSalvador View Post
Raised a Christian, it's been years since I went to church, but I remember always hearing that only a very, very small number of people will go to heaven and this number includes everyone who ever existed. that sounds like playing the lottery, so I will go to hell I guess. Ever thought of what would happen if you are a faithful Christian, go to church, read the bible, but in the end you still go to hell? Why? Simply because you weren't holy enough.
SanSalvador, the Bible says, 'Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved' (Acts 16:31). If you have personally believed on Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, then you will go to heaven. By believing on Christ, what is meant is accepting as true the assertion that Jesus Christ who is the Son of God died for your sins and rose again. And accepting that as true, entrusting your salvation to Him.

The issue is not your own righteousness or whether you have been good enough. The issue is that when you believe on Christ God gives you His own perfect righteousness and then declares you justified. Look at Romans chapter 4:1-5.
Rom. 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2] For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3] For what does the Scripture say? ''Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.'' 4] Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5] But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.
What that passage is saying is that Abraham was not justified by his works as far as his eternal salvation is concerned, but rather, he was credited or imputed with God's own righteousness simply by believing God's promise of the coming Messiah. In Abraham's day Jesus has not yet come into the world and gone to the Cross. But Abraham believed the promise of the coming Messiah and was eternally saved as a result.

To spend the eternal future with God, we must have a righteousness which is equal to God's righteousness. But our imperfect human righteousness can never be equal to God's perfect righteousness. That is why no amount of works on our part will get us into heaven. No matter how good we try to be, it is not enough to merit our salvation. Therefore, God's solution to that problem is to credit anyone who simply believes on Jesus Christ with His own perfect righteousness and then declare him justified. Jesus Christ on the Cross did all the work that made salvation possible so that by simply trusting in His finished work we are forgiven our sins, credited with God's perfect righteousness, and born again with the result that we have eternal life which can never be taken away from us.
Romans 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
As a result of simply trusting Jesus Christ for eternal life we are justified and have peace (we are reconciled) with God.

All who have responded to the gospel by believing on Christ will spend the eternal future in the presence of God. Those who die without having come to the Father through Jesus Christ remain under condemnation and will spend the eternal future separated from God in the lake of fire.

So don't worry about not being holy enough. If you have believed on Christ you have God's own righteousness credited to you and have been born again and will go to heaven.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it (eternal life) is the gift of God; 9] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:27 AM
 
18,249 posts, read 16,902,587 times
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I was at a large outdoor mall the other day and there must have been three thousands people milling about, raising hell, drinking, doing everything but living a good, fruitful Christian life. I looked about and said to myself, "I cannot see one person here living for Christ. If this is a microcosm of the world at large then to say that even half of 1% of mankind will make it to heaven is being very optimistic. And of that half of 1%, 9/10's have to be children between 0 and 5 years of age.
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Old 10-15-2013, 03:34 AM
Zur
 
949 posts, read 830,351 times
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The disciples asked Jesus: " Who then can be saved?" Jesus answered: "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." (Mat 19:25+26) Many people think they can save themselves or they trust their religion, their church, a ritual or whatsoever. But only through God it is possible to be saved. Therefore God send Jesus Christ to make it possible. To believe in Him means to love Him and obey Him, to have a relationship with Him and to follow Him, not to deny Him or go away from Him. His disciples did not leave Him, because He had words of everlasting life. Now we have the Holy Spirit, who is send to guide us into everlasting life. Who obeys and walks in the Spirit, in the light or the love of God are the sons of God and will inherit the kingdom. I strife to go through the narrow gate and walk the narrow way, what others do, I cannot hinder them, but I do not go with the crowd. I trust Jesus, that through Him I will make it.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:25 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 7,014,055 times
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Everyone goes to hell. We are born into it. Christ will bring everyone out of hell - it's in the scriptures.
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