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Old 10-16-2013, 04:43 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
1,542 posts, read 1,065,237 times
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ARE DENOMINATIONS IN KEEPING WITH GOD’S WILL?
Many people in our day are convinced that, “If you believe that Jesus is the Son of God and accept Him as your personal Savior, you are saved, and that there is nothing you can do to cause you to lose that salvation.”
But our Savior Himself made high expectations of those who would be His true followers. In the 14th chapter of John, He said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments,” also “Whosoever forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple,” Luke 14:33. In Acts chapter 5, St. Peter said that God gives the Holy Ghost to “them that OBEY Him.” So we must repent and have a mind to obey Christ if we are to receive His Holy Spirit, and I believe that Spirit gives us the power to resist committing willful sins. We know that we are prone to make mistakes every day, but that, “If we confess our sins , he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness,” I John 1:10.
St. Paul wrote to the Corinthians “That ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment,” I Cor 1:10. Now we know that Jesus told His Apostles, “He that heareth you heareth me, and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me” Luke 10:16. He also said, “He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me, and he that receiveth me, receiveth him that sent me,” John 13:20. Also we know that Jesus personally struck Paul down on the road to Damascus and that St. Paul declared his credentials in several of his epistles that he was called of Christ Jesus to be an Apostle.
Jesus also prayed to his Father in John 17:11, that his followers should be one as He and the Father were one.
So if we are to be obedient to Christ and also to take heed to all the admonitions of His Apostles, it seems like an impossible task. But if we truly have the Holy Spirit, then He does the work in us, and we have nothing of which we can boast. According to Jesus, ”When ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do,” Luke 17:10.
Does it make any sense that denominational differences are looked upon as being perfectly normal in our day, with people generally believing that almost all "conventional denominations” are branches of the Christian church and that all who have accepted Jesus Christ as their “personal” Savior are assured of going to heaven when they die.
Do we really believe that our all-wise, all-powerful Father in heaven looks down on this earth and approves of all those who claim to have been called of Him to preach the Gospel, even though they are often preaching things that are exactly opposite of what others are preaching.
I personally believe that Jesus gave the perfect formula for solving this gross confusion when he said in John 7:17 that, “If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.” I believe that if we have truly repented and pray earnestly for Christ and His Father to show us any area of our life where we are not doing His will, they will show this to us and give us the Holy Spirit. That Spirit will make it possible for us to be obedient to Them, which is impossible for us to do if we have a carnal mind. “Because the carnal mind is enmity against God for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his” Romans 8:7-9.
Jonathan Edwards wrote in 1851, “I am come now to the last distinguishing mark of holy affections that I shall mention: XII. Gracious and holy affections have their exercise and fruit in Christian practice. . . John 15:14, ‘Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.’. . If the old nature be indeed mortified, and a new and heavenly nature infused, then may it well be expected, that men will walk in newness of life, and continue to do so to the end of their days. . . Some may be ready to object against what has been said of Christian practice being the chief evidence of the truth of grace, that this is a legal doctrine, and that this making practice a thing of such great importance in religion, magnifies works, and tends to lead men to make too much of their own doings, to the diminution of the glory of free grace, and does not seem well to consist with the great gospel doctrine of justification by faith alone. It is our works being the price of God’s favor, and not their being the sign of it, that is the thing which is inconsistent with the freeness of that favor. . . It is not the worthiness or loveliness of our works, or anything in us, which is in any wise accepted with God, as a balance for the guilt of sin. Thus we are justified only by the righteousness of Christ, and not by our righteousness.” (A Treatise Concerning Religious Affections; Worcester edition.)
We know that Jesus said, “Not everyone that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father in heaven” Matt. 7:21. .Jesus made it perfectly clear that, “He that hath my commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me; and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings” John 14:21 & 24. And as we said, He told His Apostles that if we hear them we hear Christ Himself, so we are expected to have no divisions among us, as St. Paul admonished the Corinthians.
We certainly acknowledge that Christ has had true disciples in all ages of time since His crucifixion and resurrection, but I believe that, as the time of His return to earth draws nearer, He is calling for those who have truly repented and whose primary goal in life is to do God’s will, that we lay down our denominational differences and follow Him. I believe we should be careful not to judge others too harshly, since they must answer to their maker and not to us. But I firmly believe that if we are truly doing His will, Jesus promised us, “We SHALL KNOW of the doctrine whether it be of God" or whether we speak of ourselves.
If the reader sees anything in this document that is not backed up by scripture, you would do me a favor by bringing it to my attention.

We strive to follow the admonitions of James 3:[17] But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Many of the forums are anything but peaceable, gentle or easily entreated. They get quite fractious at times.
Matt. 7:[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Best wishes to all who are seeking to know and DO the will of our heavenly Father, which is a MUST requirement for salvation,
Bob Prince

Last edited by Miss Blue; 10-17-2013 at 08:00 AM.. Reason: repetition
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:56 AM
 
183 posts, read 141,155 times
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You are correct. Christ kept the will of the Father and he is your example.


You are to do the same.


Has it ever occurred to you that all the characters of the bible were old testament characters? including Christ?
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:22 AM
 
183 posts, read 141,155 times
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The bible serves a single purpose and must be read as a whole to understand the purpose. The bible tells the story of God's plan/purpose for man.

Father to Son, the Bride of Christ, brothers in Christ, sister, sons of man.....etc.......

Family, God has created his own family.

God's family is a very distinct people, they are set apart, the Israelites. Nowhere is any other people in the bible referred to as God's people other than the Israelites. The gentiles can be grafted but they MUST become Israelites and the must know what it means to become one.
One will receive salvation through the blood of Christ but as Christ states only if they follow the will of the Father, in other words, one must follow the Commandments.

When christians hang their salvation around the neck of the gospels only, they lose their salvation.

The will of the Father, the concept of Family, the big picture known as God's will for man, is lost on on the christian.

Matthew 7:23
But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God's laws.'



As explained clearly in Matthew (and elsewhere) the majority of christians will not inter the Kingdom.

Last edited by ShepherdMaster; 10-16-2013 at 05:30 AM..
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Old 10-16-2013, 10:58 AM
Zur
 
949 posts, read 652,755 times
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Shalom Bob!
I agree with your OP. I just read Henry`s commentary on Mt 7:21. It is different than what is preached from many pulpits today. Many pastors have not the fear of God. If they mislead the people with false teaching and bad example, Jesus will reject them. We have to walk the narrow way, which is the way of holiness, the broad way is the way of sin. We have to be wise and build our spiritual house on the rock, which is Christ and do ( obey) His will, or we build on sand. We have to do the works of God, this can only be done in the Holy Spirit, whom God will give to them that obey Him. Seek and you will find, ask and it will be given , knock and it will be opened. The gifts of God are free!
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:03 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
1,542 posts, read 1,065,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zur View Post
Shalom Bob!
I agree with your OP. I just read Henry`s commentary on Mt 7:21. It is different than what is preached from many pulpits today. Many pastors have not the fear of God. If they mislead the people with false teaching and bad example, Jesus will reject them. We have to walk the narrow way, which is the way of holiness, the broad way is the way of sin. We have to be wise and build our spiritual house on the rock, which is Christ and do ( obey) His will, or we build on sand. We have to do the works of God, this can only be done in the Holy Spirit, whom God will give to them that obey Him. Seek and you will find, ask and it will be given , knock and it will be opened. The gifts of God are free!
Excellent quote, Zur. We certainly must adhere to sound doctrine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post
You are correct. Christ kept the will of the Father and he is your example.
You are to do the same.
You are certainly right that we must keep the will of our Heavenly Father.
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
8,091 posts, read 4,238,229 times
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Quote:
Are denominations in keeping with godís will?
Short answer: Ask God and find out. God alone is the only certain and sure source of all truth. The Bible points us to God but the Bible is not God. It is just one of his many tools to teach his children.

Quote:
Many people in our day are convinced that, ďIf you believe that Jesus is the Son of God and accept Him as your personal Savior, you are saved, and that there is nothing you can do to cause you to lose that salvation.Ē
Born again Christianity is diverse. A smaller minority actually believes in what I like to call the steel trap in the sky -- that once you are "saved" you cannot ever be "unsaved." The larger majority of them actually do believe if good works, though they may not reallize it. They believe that if good works do not follow a person being "saved" then their experience wasn't genuine. So when it comes to that majority, they actually do believe in good works, hold high moral standards, etc. To them, works is not about earning points towards salvation, it is evidence of one's already saved status. We're all imperfect, but extremely malicious and heinous sins are not something a saved person would ever do, etc.

Truthfully, with that majority group, the tired old faith vs works debate is really just a debate about whether the chicken or the egg came first: It's pointless because both sides fail to see the obvious fact that they are actually already in agreement for the most part. Both sides are pointed in the same direction with the same results. The main differences are chronology, semantics and verbiage.

I think modern Christendom needs two things:
1.) For believers to set higher standards and expect more from themselves. We owe God and Christ nothing less than our best effort to live as righteously as we know how to. Just don't get down on yourself when you fail to live a perfect life. That is not the expectation. The expectation is to do your very best.
2.) For believers to waste less time beating themselves up for not being good enough and just accept that God loves them. Just accept that God will work with you from wherever you are. Jesus Christ paid the price and made up the difference for everything we can't do, so just believe him and live your life with the assurance of salvation his gift gives all of us.
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Old 10-18-2013, 06:57 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
1,542 posts, read 1,065,237 times
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I think modern Christendom needs two things:
1.) For believers to set higher standards and expect more from themselves. We owe God and Christ nothing less than our best effort to live as righteously as we know how to. Just don't get down on yourself when you fail to live a perfect life. That is not the expectation. The expectation is to do your very best.
2.) For believers to waste less time beating themselves up for not being good enough and just accept that God loves them. Just accept that God will work with you from wherever you are. Jesus Christ paid the price and made up the difference for everything we can't do, so just believe him and live your life with the assurance of salvation his gift gives all of us.[/quote]

Excellent post. I would add that if we do not manifest true forgiveness to those who wrong us, we need to be sure the Holy Spirit and its fruits are a major part of our Christian walk.

Last edited by Robert M Prince; 10-18-2013 at 07:06 AM..
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Old 10-18-2013, 08:31 AM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,715,799 times
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Unfortunately, as long as human beings are in charge, we will see denominations. We are sinful people and take our eyes off of God. As a result, we see splits for the dumbest reasons.
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Old 10-18-2013, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,987 posts, read 22,270,195 times
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I don't believe that Jesus Christ ever intended that His Church split up into various denominations. He established "one Church," not many. Not 40,000. Not 4. The problem is that, as Vizio pointed out (and yes, folks, history has been made. Katzpur and Vizio actually agree on something), "as long as human beings are in charge, we will see denominations." You could take ten people who have no religious background whatsoever and give them each a Bible to read. After everyone had finished reading it, you could get them together and say, "Okay, we're going to start a Church, and it's going to be based upon what the Bible says, since everything we need to know to return to God's presence is found within the pages of the book you just finished reading." You know what you'd end up with? Ten different denominations. Some of them would have a lot in common with others, and some would see things very differently from the rest. But every last one would find at least one point on which to disagree with the others and would insist that his interpretation was the right one.

I believe that there is such a thing as absolute truth. I believe that God wants us to find it. That said, we need to realize that none of us is God and none of us has all of the answers. We're all just doing the best we can and are hoping that God will be loving and merciful to us all. The fact that there are many different denominations in the world today doesn't mean that these denominations need to hate each other, label one another as "non-Christian," or condemn one other's members to an eternity in Hell. If anyone reading the Bible thought that was Christ's message, they need to stop right now and re-read the book.
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Old 10-18-2013, 09:23 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
1,542 posts, read 1,065,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I don't believe that Jesus Christ ever intended that His Church split up into various denominations. He established "one Church," not many. Not 40,000. Not 4. The problem is that, as Vizio pointed out (and yes, folks, history has been made. Katzpur and Vizio actually agree on something), "as long as human beings are in charge, we will see denominations." You could take ten people who have no religious background whatsoever and give them each a Bible to read. After everyone had finished reading it, you could get them together and say, "Okay, we're going to start a Church, and it's going to be based upon what the Bible says, since everything we need to know to return to God's presence is found within the pages of the book you just finished reading." You know what you'd end up with? Ten different denominations. Some of them would have a lot in common with others, and some would see things very differently from the rest. But every last one would find at least one point on which to disagree with the others and would insist that his interpretation was the right one.

I believe that there is such a thing as absolute truth. I believe that God wants us to find it. That said, we need to realize that none of us is God and none of us has all of the answers. We're all just doing the best we can and are hoping that God will be loving and merciful to us all. The fact that there are many different denominations in the world today doesn't mean that these denominations need to hate each other, label one another as "non-Christian," or condemn one other's members to an eternity in Hell. If anyone reading the Bible thought that was Christ's message, they need to stop right now and re-read the book.
Excellent post, Katzpur.
I believe that if we truly desire the will of God, we will follow Christ's admonition in John 7:[17] If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
If we are hungering and thirsting after righteousness and truly are being led by the Holy Spirit, Jesus said we SHALL KNOW of the doctrine whether it be of God or whether it is of man.
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