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Old 10-27-2013, 02:46 PM
 
2,532 posts, read 2,015,968 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
After submitting post #174 I discovered that contrary to what I have been saying, the Bible does use the term anastasis - 'resurrection' for those raised back to life in a mortal body.

In Hebrews 11:35 it is stated;
Women received back their dead by resurrection (anastasis; Strongs 386); and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection;
In John 11:23 concerning Lazarus' rising again, and in Luke 24:7 regarding Jesus' rising again, the word used is anastesetai; Strongs 450.

Both anastasis and anastesetai are from ana and histemi and mean to stand again.

Therefore, it is proper to refer to Lazarus' restoration to life as a resurrection. However, Jesus' resurrection is a better resurrection and guarantees a better future resurrection for all believers.
I also made a mistake in saying the three heavens are 1= Kingdom of Heaven within, 2= Paradise, 3= a higher Heaven then Paradise. Although there are three spiritual places in and of themselves as is apparent yet Scripture says of the three and that you expounded on correctly, that they are the atmosphere, outer space and Paradise the third Heaven where Paul went. Yet I still maintain He was speaking of another man in Scripture that He saw go into Paradise like as he did. Therefor of his own experience he did not want to boast about least he be called boastful. 2COR 12:6 "For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he see me to be, or that he hears of me." He could have gloried in his own experience of Paradise but he held back and gloried in another.

The Spirit did show me Paul did go to Paradise when He died after being stoned. It is told by God in the book by Dr. E.B. Ebby called Caught up into Paradise. This Doctor also went there. A more than credible witness.

Whether it was another man, as I maintain it was, because Paul speaks of him in the second person pronoun is immaterial but it does give us reference as to what the Third Heaven is as compared with the other two so that Scripture can not be broken. This however leads to the question: If those in Paradise will "rise first" then where will they rise to. They will rise to the Throne Room of God.


REV 7:9 "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the Throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"

"REV 7:13-15 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and from where they come? And I said unto him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the Throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the Throne shall dwell among them."

Last edited by garya123; 10-27-2013 at 03:29 PM..
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Old 10-27-2013, 03:14 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No Richard. Again, Paul stated that he knew of a man who 14 years ago who was caught up to the third heaven. That's Fourteen years prior to the time of his relating the incidence.

And again, it is because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations (verse 7) with reference to the inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak (verse 4) that Paul was given a thorn in his side in order to prevent him from exalting himself (verse 7).

The Bible Knowledge Commentary has the following on Paul's experience.
Paul's indirect reference to himself as a man in Christ showed that he regarded this great experience not as a consequence of inherent worthiness of spiritual excellence but because he was ''in Christ.'' As such it anticipated what everyone in Christ will one day experience, the presence of Christ in heaven.
This event occurred 14 years earlier, sometime in the years A.D. 42-44 before Paul's missionary journeys reported in Acts. Paul was raptured (caught up is from the same verb harpazó used in 1 Thes. 4:17 of saints at the Rapture) to the third heaven, the dwelling place of Christ and the saints, which Jesus called Paradise (Luke 23:43; cf. Rev. 2:7). Temporal and spatial sensations were absent (whether he was in the body or apart from the body he did not know). What he heard he was forbidden to communicate, possibly because it applied to him alone (cf. Acts 9:16). The experience, however, no doubt contributed to Paul's conviction that ''our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all'' (2 Cor. 4:17). [The Bible Knowledge Commentary, New Testament, An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty, p.582]
Paul was talking about his own experience. Not someone elses. And certainly not Enoch who lived long ago.

Uh, yea was talking about Enoch...
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Old 10-27-2013, 03:17 PM
 
Location: US
27,953 posts, read 15,039,743 times
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Originally Posted by Zur View Post
Shalom Richard!
Yes in Heaven! and it is better there than here on earth, imagine 2000 years on earth must be terrible. But when you can find out his address I would like to meet him.

Shalom...I was just satin'...
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Old 10-27-2013, 03:19 PM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
This takes Godly courage. Thanks Mike.

I don't think I have heard him admit error before...
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Old 10-27-2013, 05:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Uh, yea was talking about Enoch...
I vote for John-boy.
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Old 10-27-2013, 05:58 PM
 
20,347 posts, read 9,815,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I don't think I have heard him admit error before...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
After submitting post #174 I discovered that contrary to what I have been saying, the Bible does use the term anastasis - 'resurrection' for those raised back to life in a mortal body.

In Hebrews 11:35 it is stated;
Women received back their dead by resurrection (anastasis; Strongs 386); and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection;
In John 11:23 concerning Lazarus' rising again, and in Luke 24:7 regarding Jesus' rising again, the word used is anastesetai; Strongs 450.

Both anastasis and anastesetai are from ana and histemi and mean to stand again.

Therefore, it is proper to refer to Lazarus' restoration to life as a resurrection. However, Jesus' resurrection is a better resurrection and guarantees a better future resurrection for all believers.
It’s no small anomaly, when a person humbles themselves.

John 3:17
For
God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
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Old 10-27-2013, 06:00 PM
 
2,532 posts, read 2,015,968 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post

The Spirit did show me Paul did go to Paradise when He died after being stoned. It is told by God in the book by Dr. E.B. Ebby called Caught up into Paradise. This Doctor also went there. A more than credible witness.
Correction. The story of Paul was in the another book by Dr. Richard Eby [correct name] called Didn't You Read My Book". This book is called that because when Ebby was in Paradise and had questions for the Lord, the Lord often said whimsically, "Didn't you read my book?" And telling the Doctor that the answers were in the Bible and that when he got back to earth he should relearn some things. Good advice for all of us! He reports that Jesus said he would return before Eby died but Eby is dead now. I think it was something that Eby misunderstood as Christ saying. Everything else in the book is credible but you would have to be the judge of that. I doubt what he says could be made up and his accident, death and returning to life are a matter of record.

The transcript of the conversation with Christ is on the web. http://near-death.com/forum/nde/000/91.html But the host of that web sight puts a spin on Eby's thinking that Jesus would return before his death that I don't agree with. The host believes in reincarnation. He uses the transcript to promote his belief in reincarnation. I do not believe in reincarnation. The transcript however is very interesting. I think Eby was simply mistaken.

Last edited by garya123; 10-27-2013 at 07:09 PM..
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Old 10-27-2013, 07:08 PM
 
21,808 posts, read 16,674,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
This takes Godly courage. Thanks Mike.
Not at all. If one is objective, then changing what one believes in the light of new information which warrants a such a change is as easy as changing one's shirt. I'm interested in presenting the truth. Not in defending error.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:34 AM
Zur
 
949 posts, read 648,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Uh, yea was talking about Enoch...
Paul says he knows this man. He is not talking about someone he read about. So he at least has met this man. If it is Enoch, what the bible does not say, than Paul must met him in Heaven, in Paradise and the results are the same. Paul got revelations, when he was in Heaven, in Paradise. And I believe he is speaking of himself. But the fact is that Paul got revelations from Heaven we can see from the context of the scriptures. When this does not fit your doctrines than may be there is a mistake in it.

Last edited by Zur; 10-28-2013 at 01:47 AM..
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:38 AM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
5,178 posts, read 3,896,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post

Belief is meaningless.


Knowledge and faith is a different matter.

How and why?
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