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Old 10-28-2013, 03:15 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by Zur View Post
Paul says he knows this man. He is not talking about someone he read about. So he at least has met this man. If it is Enoch, what the bible does not say, than Paul must met him in Heaven, in Paradise and the results are the same. Paul got revelations, when he was in Heaven, in Paradise. And I believe he is speaking of himself. But the fact is that Paul got revelations from Heaven we can see from the context of the scriptures. When this does not fit your doctrines than may be there is a mistake in it.

I am looking at the way the Greek spells it out grammatically...
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:58 AM
Zur
 
949 posts, read 648,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckmann View Post
How and why?
What we believe must be according to the word of God and the revelation of the Holy Spirit who leads us into all truth, so we can have the mind of Christ, otherwise it is wishful thinking or the philosophy of men. We have to be aware that Satan has corrupted the human mind and he can do that with believers also, otherwise we would not have Babylon and it`s confusion. If every one would seek and ask God even in fasting and prayer, we could get the right answers and come to unity in faith and knowledge. There is no gift of believe, but of faith and knowledge.
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:12 AM
Zur
 
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Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
Correction. The story of Paul was in the another book by Dr. Richard Eby [correct name] called Didn't You Read My Book". This book is called that because when Ebby was in Paradise and had questions for the Lord, the Lord often said whimsically, "Didn't you read my book?" And telling the Doctor that the answers were in the Bible and that when he got back to earth he should relearn some things. Good advice for all of us! He reports that Jesus said he would return before Eby died but Eby is dead now. I think it was something that Eby misunderstood as Christ saying. Everything else in the book is credible but you would have to be the judge of that. I doubt what he says could be made up and his accident, death and returning to life are a matter of record.

The transcript of the conversation with Christ is on the web. Dr. Richard Eby But the host of that web sight puts a spin on Eby's thinking that Jesus would return before his death that I don't agree with. The host believes in reincarnation. He uses the transcript to promote his belief in reincarnation. I do not believe in reincarnation. The transcript however is very interesting. I think Eby was simply mistaken.
I believe that the words Dr Eby received from Jesus in his NDE are true and gave me some conformations. That Jesus is coming soon and Paul expected this already in his lifetime, is of the Holy Spirit, because He wants us to be always ready. The reincarnation in the link are not true.Thank you garya for sharing.
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:54 AM
 
5,133 posts, read 2,528,408 times
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Originally Posted by Zur View Post
That Jesus is coming soon and Paul expected this already in his lifetime,......
If Paul expected the thousand-year reign over earth to be in his lifetime there would have been no need to give the counsel at 1st Corinthians 4 v 8 showing none have begun ruling as kings without the rest of them.

Revelation was Not written for the first century. The setting or time frame of Revelation [ 1 v 10 ] is for our day.
Those ruling as kings and priests would be part of a first or earlier resurrection- Rev. 20 v 6; 5 vs 9,10.

Paul would have known Jesus illustration of Luke 19 vs 11-15 that Jesus, as the nobleman, would first go away to a far country [ heaven ] before Jesus would return in kingdom glory at the time of Matthew 25 vs 31,32. The 'time of separation' or the 'harvest time' is still ahead of us.
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:59 AM
 
5,133 posts, read 2,528,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zur View Post
Paul says he knows this man. He is not talking about someone he read about. So he at least has met this man. If it is Enoch, what the bible does not say, than Paul must met him in Heaven, in Paradise and the results are the same. Paul got revelations, when he was in Heaven, in Paradise. And I believe he is speaking of himself. But the fact is that Paul got revelations from Heaven we can see from the context of the scriptures. When this does not fit your doctrines than may be there is a mistake in it.
There are three [3 ] heavens mentioned at 2nd Peter 3 vs 5,7,13

The 1st heavens were the heavens of OLD [ Noah's day]

The 2nd heavens are the NOW heavens from Noah's day to our day.

The 3rd heavens are the NEW heavens of verse 13 when earth will become a paradise during Jesus 1000-yr. kingdom reign over earth.
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:49 AM
Zur
 
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Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
If Paul expected the thousand-year reign over earth to be in his lifetime there would have been no need to give the counsel at 1st Corinthians 4 v 8 showing none have begun ruling as kings without the rest of them.

Revelation was Not written for the first century. The setting or time frame of Revelation [ 1 v 10 ] is for our day.
Those ruling as kings and priests would be part of a first or earlier resurrection- Rev. 20 v 6; 5 vs 9,10.

Paul would have known Jesus illustration of Luke 19 vs 11-15 that Jesus, as the nobleman, would first go away to a far country [ heaven ] before Jesus would return in kingdom glory at the time of Matthew 25 vs 31,32. The 'time of separation' or the 'harvest time' is still ahead of us.
No problem, I agree with you! But there is a believe in all believers throughout history who believed in the return of Christ in their lifetime, this I wanted to say, you can see that also?
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:59 AM
Zur
 
949 posts, read 648,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
There are three [3 ] heavens mentioned at 2nd Peter 3 vs 5,7,13

The 1st heavens were the heavens of OLD [ Noah's day]

The 2nd heavens are the NOW heavens from Noah's day to our day.

The 3rd heavens are the NEW heavens of verse 13 when earth will become a paradise during Jesus 1000-yr. kingdom reign over earth.
Where does it say that the heavens changed in Noah`s day? You can give proof by scripture?
The 1000 year reign of Christ is not paradise. There is still rebellion on earth, Satan will be loosed in the end and many will rebel with him and be killed. Can you explain how this is possible in a paradise? Paradise on earth is after the creation of a new earth and heaven.
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Old 10-28-2013, 06:02 AM
 
5,133 posts, read 2,528,408 times
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Originally Posted by Zur View Post
No problem, I agree with you! But there is a believe in all believers throughout history who believed in the return of Christ in their lifetime, this I wanted to say, you can see that also?
Absolutely. Throughout history is because spiritual light is progressive. As the prophet Daniel wrote there would be things sealed up until the time of the end.- Daniel 12 vs 4,9 - Spiritual light [ knowledge ] would grow lighter and brighter with the passing of time.- Proverbs 4 v 18

Revelation was Not written for the first century but written for our day of time frame setting.- Rev. 1 v 10.
It is in our time frame that the good news of God kingdom is being proclaimed on an international scale as Jesus mentioned at Matthew 24 v 14 before the end comes of all badness on earth before Jesus, as king of God's kingdom, ushers in global peace on earth among men of goodwill.
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Old 10-28-2013, 06:17 AM
 
5,133 posts, read 2,528,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zur View Post
Where does it say that the heavens changed in Noah`s day? You can give proof by scripture?
The 1000 year reign of Christ is not paradise. There is still rebellion on earth, Satan will be loosed in the end and many will rebel with him and be killed. Can you explain how this is possible in a paradise? Paradise on earth is after the creation of a new earth and heaven.
2nd Peter 3 vs 5,6 mentions the heavens and earth of Noah's day. The heavens and earth were changed by cleansing.

Yes, if not during, but at the end of the 1000 years there is rebellion. Why do you say MANY?
We know it is an unknown number as the sands of the seashore can't be counted [ Rev. 21 v 8 B; Jeremiah 33 v 22; Hebrews 11 v 12 ], but as the grains of sand can't be counted, then the number is unknown.
Jesus' ransom covers MANY according to Matthew 20 v 28. So, the majority or the many will prove faithful.

Wasn't it possible for Adam and Eve to rebel in a paradise earth ?
So, why wouldn't it be possible for some of mankind to rebel during or at the end of the thousand years ?

As the OLD heavens and earth were cleansed in Noah's day [ 2nd Peter 3 vs 5,6 ] the NEW heavens and earth are cleansed of all wicked ones being destroyed forever- Psalm 92 v 7.

Scripture is Not talking about a new planet because the earth abides forever.
- Ecc. 1 v 4 B; Psalms 78 v 69 B; 93 v 1 B; 96 v 10; 104 v 5; 1st Chron. 16 v 30; Jeremiah 10 vs 11,12; Isaiah 45 v 18
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:10 AM
Zur
 
949 posts, read 648,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I am looking at the way the Greek spells it out grammatically...
Even Greek experts differ in the interpretation of Greek and scripture. How would you interpret Jn 13:23+24; 19:26+27; 21:20 without context? If you would be legalistic, you would say this is not John. In 2. Cor 12:2 Paul is speaking in the third person of himself. I know a man in Christ 14 years ago. He does not say I knew a Christian (BTW this cannot be Enoch) 14 years ago. He also does not know, how this rapture happened, that points to a personal testimony. He divides between someone in the Spirit (he boast in) and another one in the flesh (he boast in his weakness), but 2. Cor 12:7 makes it clear that Paul had this abundant revelations and therefore it was himself who was caught up into Paradise. Context is more important than the Greek spells it out grammatically.
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