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Old 10-19-2013, 11:51 AM
 
670 posts, read 670,133 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
The bold is factually not true.
I don't intend to be rude but you aren't god so you can't prove its a fact or not.

We call our beliefs faith for a reason because we Hold Faith they are true even when their is no physical evidence.
You can't prove or disprove god exists but we still hold faith that he does.

You believe on faith that god condemns good people based on beliefs and not on their character,
But I don't rather I believe god saves based on the nature of our character rather than our beliefs.

May peace and love be with you.
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,978 posts, read 22,188,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
How many times will you refuse to believe what God revealed...
Actually, twin.spin, I believe much more of what God has revealed Moderator cut: delete

Quote:
...for he revealed that:
1) the whole world has heard it
2) the perfect and just Law provides no exceptions for those not hearing it
And when will you stop contradicting yourself? You say the whole world has heard the gospel and then you immediately say that He will make no exceptions for those who haven't.

Last edited by Miss Blue; 10-23-2013 at 09:40 AM.. Reason: bait for who knows more argument
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,348 posts, read 5,519,512 times
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Default Faith and Action

There are those who think right belief is the same as right action. And those that think right action is the same as right belief. I'm one who believes in both right belief AND right action as a necessary duality.

Most of you are well aware that my scholarship of the scriptures is quite liberal and absolutely, diametrically opposed to the literalist viewpoint. On the other hand----

The resurrection stories, some of them written not until many years after Jesus' sojourn on earth ring of solid truth. Perhaps the details are unclear and maybe there are some embellishments in the gospels, but there are no doubts about this--virtually every one of the early disciples suffered a gruesome similar fate as Jesus without refuting their faith. It is unlikely that so many would suffer so much and so courageously for what was a fabricated event.

And, if Christ is not risen, then, as Paul, points out, our faith is in vain.

And if Christ IS risen, then it is incumbent upon those who claim to follow Him to provide evidence of their faith with the same kind of actions that His disciples displayed. Loyalty until death.
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:38 PM
 
1,765 posts, read 2,452,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Or by condemning the "hell-bound" people, being hostile towards them, or distancing themselves from them in some other way.



.
Yep. The world as we know is based on collective thoughts.
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:51 PM
 
40,220 posts, read 26,833,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royalite View Post
I absolutely think that what you believe matters because it influences your reactions and actions. If a person believes that anyone who doesn't believe a certain way is going to hell their reactions to those who think differently will not be a peaceful one and they're like to act out by trying to convert. Likewise if someone thinks that a certain belief system is toxic and needs to be eradicated, they'll act according to that perception.
Or by condemning the "hell-bound" people, being hostile towards them, or distancing themselves from them in some other way.
Quote:
Likewise if someone thinks that a certain belief system is toxic and needs to be eradicated, they'll act according to that perception.
So beliefs really matter, imo.
I agree.
Beliefs matter to human reactions to one another . . . but NOT to God . . . because God KNOWS our true beliefs and they are always reflected in our behaviors and attitudes ("fruits") anyway . . . NOT our verbal pronouncements. It was only true for our primitive ancestors that our verbal pronouncements of belief correlated almost perfectly with our behaviors and attitudes because they were not sophisticated enough cognitively for it to be otherwise.
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Old 10-19-2013, 01:03 PM
 
1,765 posts, read 2,452,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Beliefs matter to human reactions to one another . . . but NOT to God . . . because God KNOWS our true beliefs and they are always reflected in our behaviors and attitudes ("fruits") anyway . . . NOT our verbal pronouncements. It was only true for our primitive ancestors that our verbal pronouncements of belief correlated almost perfectly with our behaviors and attitudes because they were not sophisticated enough cognitively for it to be otherwise.
I think you stopped short on that, mystic. I know what you're thinking in the sense that our ancestors would kill people "in the name of god" and things like that but if you took a step back you'd that even your belief that god doesn't care what we believe influences the way in which you chose to respond to us or even your reaction to certain posts. You wouldn't get heated and passionate at a person or "fundamentalists" if you didn't believe that they misrepresented god. It demonstrates your belief in who and what god is.
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Old 10-19-2013, 01:17 PM
 
40,220 posts, read 26,833,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royalite View Post
I think you stopped short on that, mystic. I know what you're thinking in the sense that our ancestors would kill people "in the name of god" and things like that but if you took a step back you'd that even your belief that god doesn't care what we believe influences the way in which you chose to respond to us or even your reaction to certain posts. You wouldn't get heated and passionate at a person or "fundamentalists" if you didn't believe that they misrepresented god. It demonstrates your belief in who and what god is.
Perhaps we are talking at cross-purposes, Royalite. Most of the easy believers in Christianity believe that God cares about the specifics of their beliefs ABOUT Christ. I am saying God does NOT care about those specifics of belief ABOUT Christ. God cares that we follow Christ's example and instructions to His disciples to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. THAT is how we are Christian in God's eyes . . . NOT what we claim to believe ABOUT Christ.
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Old 10-19-2013, 01:43 PM
 
1,765 posts, read 2,452,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Perhaps we are talking at cross-purposes, Royalite. Most of the easy believers in Christianity believe that God cares about the specifics of their beliefs ABOUT Christ. I am saying God does NOT care about those specifics of belief ABOUT Christ. God cares that we follow Christ's example and instructions to His disciples to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. THAT is how we are Christian in God's eyes . . . NOT what we claim to believe ABOUT Christ.
I can agree with that
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Old 10-19-2013, 01:53 PM
 
670 posts, read 670,133 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Perhaps we are talking at cross-purposes, Royalite. Most of the easy believers in Christianity believe that God cares about the specifics of their beliefs ABOUT Christ. I am saying God does NOT care about those specifics of belief ABOUT Christ. God cares that we follow Christ's example and instructions to His disciples to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. THAT is how we are Christian in God's eyes . . . NOT what we claim to believe ABOUT Christ.
I also agree with that.


"Any one who wishes to follow me must pick up their cross and follow me."
We must bare our burdens, face adversity with faith and willpower.
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Old 10-19-2013, 02:31 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,190,172 times
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Originally Posted by twin.spin
How many times will you refuse to believe what God revealed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Actually, twin.spin, I believe much more of what God has revealed than you do.
You wish .....

Originally Posted by twin.spin
...for he revealed that:
1) the whole world has heard it
2) the perfect and just Law provides no exceptions for those not hearing it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
And when will you stop contradicting yourself? You say the whole world has heard the gospel and then you immediately say that He will make no exceptions for those who haven't.
I'm not contradicting myself ... just taking what others say and compare them to what God reveals in the Bible.

Contradiction #1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Where does the Bible address the fate of those who diedwithout every hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ?
Problem with that is the Bible does address the fate.... only you don't like what God revealed.
  • Romans 3:19 KJV"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law:
    that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God"
  • Isaiah 64:6 KJV"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags;"
Contradiction #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
You say the whole world has heard the gospel and then you immediately say that He will make no exceptions for those who haven't.
What I was addressing was the false premise of the argument by those who always ask the same question:
" what happens to those who diedwithout every hearing the gospel " ?


The answer revealed by God in the Bible is, you're asking a question that isn't relevant because their guilty verdict followed them.
  • Romans 3:19 KJV .... is the revealed truth.
  • John 3:18 ''He who believes on Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Last edited by twin.spin; 10-19-2013 at 02:54 PM.. Reason: spacing problems
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