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Old 10-18-2013, 09:09 PM
 
40,154 posts, read 26,789,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
So God under the law uses a woman for the enrichment of the nation of Israel, but under grace forbids women from roles of leadership. You can't make this kind of stuff up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Again...I realize that actually reading the Bible and doing what it says is a foreign concept to you. I've never observed it to be an important thing to you. But the Bible does say that a requirement to be a pastor is that he be a man. I don't know how to get around that.
There is nothing to get around except an uninformed reading of the Bible ignoring all the knowledge that would make an informed interpretation possible . . . as in my previous post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
No, Vizio . . . you only care what YOU think the Bible says. I know that reconciling the myriad communication, translation, transliteration, trans-cultural, trans-generational, figurative, idiomatic, contextual, etc. difficulties involved in determining what the Bible ACTUALLY says and how it relates to God is a foreign concept to you.
Pcamps has identified the actual difficulty you are having:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Actually the scriptures are very important to me,what you believe they are saying isn't. There's nothing to get around apart from being ignorant of your own attitude towards women, there are plenty of women posting on this forum that are far more spiritually aware to the things of God than any who claim to be male pastors on this forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
To actually have to tell a male pastor what speaking In or by the spirit is, is another reason why no one bothers going to church anymore and why Christianity is in its darkest years of human history, thus making the bible irrelevant in the eyes of many, because if it is saying what those who are not in the spirit are believing it is saying, we really are in the darkness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
You realize one day, like most Christians, that the bible is not inerrant. That one is actually allowed to use one's Creator-given intelligence, reason and common sense, to suss out which parts of your holy book are allegorical, metaphorical, mythical, cultural, and which might contain a smidge of history.
It's really not THAT big a leap for a person gifted with average intelligence and the ability to read and reason.

I honestly think you are capable.
If you weren't so afraid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Sorry, Dude. I do believe it to be inspired.
You keep saying that . . . but it is NOT the issue. Of course it is inspired . . . but it was NOT dictated and it was NOT written by God. That is a naive' fantasy that ignores the realities of human fallibility and ignorance.
Quote:
I can't understand why some people consider themselves to be Christians and don't believe it to be inspired. To them, it must be nothing more than a social club.
We believe it to be inspired . . . but we knowledgeably and intelligently understand that actual knowledge and intelligence is required to (as TroutDude says) suss it out.
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Old 10-18-2013, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,313 posts, read 5,507,678 times
Reputation: 4052
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
There is nothing to get around except an uninformed reading of the Bible ignoring all the knowledge that would make an informed interpretation possible . . . as in my previous post:
Pcamps has identified the actual difficulty you are having:




You keep saying that . . . but it is NOT the issue. Of course it is inspired . . . but it was NOT dictated and it was NOT written by God. That is a naive' fantasy that ignores the realities of human fallibility and ignorance.We believe it to be inspired . . . but we knowledgeably and intelligently understand that actual knowledge and intelligence is required to (as TroutDude says) suss it out.

Excellent points, Mystic , but I know how I was when I fit in that camp--I could believe anything anyone said from the pulpit about the Bible, but I was unable to reconcile scriptures myself, so I pretended all those crazy liberals were just ignoring the truth.

It took a long time, a lot of prayer and research, and a great professor to open my eyes to the fact that God displays Himself in imperfect products--and what's more, He prefers to do it that way.

What happens instead is the very thing Jesus fought against with the Pharisees and Sadducees. "We have the TORAH and WE know what it means. You are just an ignorant day laborer, Jesus, just pretending to know better than what we've decided a long time ago."

It's why the way is narrow and few there are who find the path. It's even harder if you go to a church and listen to a lot of what comes from the pulpit. They've become accidental Pharisees and don't even see it in themselves.

You and I who disagree about some specific issues have no disagreement in spirit.

God bless
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,293 posts, read 7,675,370 times
Reputation: 1723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
There are a lot of things women can do that I can't. What's your point?
Are any of those things denied to you for reasons not tied to physical capabilities? Like prejudices of men?
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,293 posts, read 7,675,370 times
Reputation: 1723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Sorry, Dude. I do believe it to be inspired. I can't understand why some people consider themselves to be Christians and don't believe it to be inspired. To them, it must be nothing more than a social club.
No, to them it is a body 0f believers led by the Spirit that was promised instead of by a book that was not.
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Old 10-19-2013, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,234 posts, read 54,695,623 times
Reputation: 66723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Sorry, Dude. I do believe it to be inspired. I can't understand why some people consider themselves to be Christians and don't believe it to be inspired. To them, it must be nothing more than a social club.
Well, there's a bizarre statement.

You worship a book. A valuable book that can point the way to God and be the catalyst for endless depth of questions as we make our journeys toward being better Christians, but the book itself is not God, it is a book written by people. I see this weird little scenario where you are so engrossed in memorizing verses so that you can tell everyone else how wrong they are and Jesus walks up next to you and asks you to do something and you say, "Shut up, man, can't you see I'm reading the Bible here?"
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Old 10-19-2013, 07:18 AM
 
183 posts, read 140,565 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Well, there's a bizarre statement.

You worship a book. A valuable book that can point the way to God and be the catalyst for endless depth of questions as we make our journeys toward being better Christians, but the book itself is not God, it is a book written by people. I see this weird little scenario where you are so engrossed in memorizing verses so that you can tell everyone else how wrong they are and Jesus walks up next to you and asks you to do something and you say, "Shut up, man, can't you see I'm reading the Bible here?"

You will not kneel before the Father and claim ignorance, there will be no excuses.
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Old 10-19-2013, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,234 posts, read 54,695,623 times
Reputation: 66723
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post
You will not kneel before the Father and claim ignorance, there will be no excuses.
Nice example of "non sequitur", but was there a point you wanted to make?
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