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Old 10-18-2013, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,759,838 times
Reputation: 1590

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
This "reasoning" has led directly to the subjugation of women to the present day.

Only weak men cling to it.
Thom Hartmann says that testosterone is the most lethal substance on the planet. I think it can be if not kept under control. Consider all the jokes about women being "hormonal" and PMS jokes -- but hey, what about the male hormone and what it can bring about?
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,037 posts, read 54,537,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Thom Hartmann says that testosterone is the most lethal substance on the planet. I think it can be if not kept under control. Consider all the jokes about women being "hormonal" and PMS jokes -- but hey, what about the male hormone and what it can bring about?
Ha, good one.

What it boils down to, seriously, is that one set of persons is trying to claim superiority over/hold back another set of persons.

IS THAT CHRISTIAN?

No. No. No.
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:12 PM
 
20,378 posts, read 9,822,083 times
Reputation: 1675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Thom Hartmann says that testosterone is the most lethal substance on the planet. I think it can be if not kept under control.
Consider all the jokes about women being "hormonal" and PMS jokes -- but hey, what about the male hormone and what it can bring about?
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:28 PM
 
40,053 posts, read 26,730,521 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
But your spin on Deborah is that God would make her a leader over His people, let her lead an army to war, let her prophesy (but she wasn't teaching when she prophesied--I can show you numerous places where prophets were teaching), but she isn't fit to be a pastor or elder in a church.

And this is the problem scriptural literalists have. As much as they state one should take all the words literally, they still have to nitpick the scriptures, interpret them in a way that fits their own mindset. So on the one hand wearing a veil was "cultural" (where does it say cultural in the Pauline scriptures), but on the other hand not being a pastor or teacher is NOT a cultural viewpoint inserted in the scripture.

Maybe you do preach the whole Bible as literal. Do you admonish women to wear veils in your church? There is no doubt of Pauline authorship regarding that. Or do you dismiss it as "cultural?

It's not that I am alone in ignoring God's word, if that is what you wish to call it. You do so as well!!!

And that's why scripture must be viewed from the point of the Holy Spirit working in one's heart.

Women did not abandon Jesus at the cross--the men HE CHOSE abandoned Him.
Women did not give up hope after His death. They stood watch by the tomb--the men HE CHOSE abandoned Him as dead and gone.

Why did the risen Christ choose to reveal Himself to women first? IMO because of the arrogance and cowardice of the men who were His closest followers. True, all of them would become such proponents of Christ and the resurrection that most would go to their deaths rather than recant.

But when push came to shove, it was women who had to go tell the disciples, "Get your sorry behinds back to the tomb. Jesus is not done with you yet!"
I fear you are talking to deaf ears filled with their own ego-driven desire for authority. It is male chauvinism . . . nothing more. TroutDude is right:

"This "reasoning" has led directly to the subjugation of women to the present day.
Only weak men cling to it."
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:58 PM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,625,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I fear you are talking to deaf ears filled with their own ego-driven desire for authority. It is male chauvinism . . . nothing more. TroutDude is right:

"This "reasoning" has led directly to the subjugation of women to the present day.
Only weak men cling to it."
Or maybe we actually care what the Bible says. I know that's a foreign concept to you.
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
2,435 posts, read 2,843,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
I suspect if you were Ms Opinionated, your opinion might be different.
She would not not like be a 'Mrs. Opinionted'
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:14 PM
 
Location: New England
32,224 posts, read 21,101,518 times
Reputation: 2274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Or maybe we actually care what the Bible says. I know that's a foreign concept to you.
Do you have a rebuttal to Wardendresden's Post ? Or are you just going to keep your head stuck in the sand claiming you believe what the bible says ?.
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:18 PM
 
40,053 posts, read 26,730,521 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Or maybe we actually care what the Bible says. I know that's a foreign concept to you.
No, Vizio . . . you only care what YOU think the Bible says. I know that reconciling the myriad communication, translation, transliteration, trans-cultural, trans-generational, figurative, idiomatic, contextual, etc. difficulties involved in determining what the Bible ACTUALLY says and how it relates to God is a foreign concept to you.
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:22 PM
 
32,532 posts, read 30,651,383 times
Reputation: 32347
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I fear you are talking to deaf ears filled with their own ego-driven desire for authority. It is male chauvinism . . . nothing more. TroutDude is right:

"This "reasoning" has led directly to the subjugation of women to the present day.
Only weak men cling to it."
Bingo.

If the Bible said: "Men must listen to their wives and yield to them. Men must subjugate themselves to women. Men must never be preachers or pastors." I highly doubt it would have made it to the Gutenberg printing.
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:22 PM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,625,689 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Do you have a rebuttal to Wardendresden's Post ? Or are you just going to keep your head stuck in the sand claiming you believe what the bible says ?.
I gave one. God used a woman in the OT as a champion for her people -- leading them in secular government. That is not equivalent to ordaining a woman as pastor. I have no problem with a woman as a political leader. But she is not to be my pastor.
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