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Old 10-19-2013, 12:32 PM
 
183 posts, read 140,386 times
Reputation: 31

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Revelation 21
A New Heaven and a New Earth
1Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”a for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’b or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
5He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
6He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
The New Jerusalem, the Bride of the Lamb
9One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 11It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls. 16The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadiac in length, and as wide and high as it is long. 17The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubitsd thick.e 18The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. 19The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, 20the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst.f 21The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.
22I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.



Note the gates and the twelve tribes, the family of God.
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:34 PM
 
183 posts, read 140,386 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
More judgement, that job is accounted for, and it ain't yours. I'm guessing your a re-tread... spreading more poison.


I spread the Word as it is written, nothing more, nothing less.


I have no idea who you are referring to but I do not spread poison, I speak the truth.


Who is judging here?
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Old 10-19-2013, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,964 posts, read 22,127,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post
Revelation 11
The Two Witnesses
1I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”a 5If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.



The gentile were never permitted in the Temple, they were to remain outside, the court yard. They are not to be measured as they are not to inter the Kingdom.


Note, the gentile is already trampling Jerusalem under foot- more can be said about that.
I asked a simple question and all I get is a bunch of rhetoric which does not answer it. I didn't ask whether the gentiles were permitted in the temple or not. So let's just forget the whole thing.
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Old 10-19-2013, 02:06 PM
 
183 posts, read 140,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I asked a simple question and all I get is a bunch of rhetoric which does not answer it. I didn't ask whether the gentiles were permitted in the temple or not. So let's just forget the whole thing.

What I posted was an explanation, do you not read your bible? or do you not understand what I posted?


I find it interesting you post on a Christian forum but find the bible to be nothing more than rhetoric.


I did not answer your question directly as I expected you or someone else to attack me because of the answer.


No, the gentile is not saved. I personally do not consider the gentile an "inferior soul" (soul being the whole human) but spiritually they are deficient or lacking.
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Old 10-19-2013, 03:36 PM
 
8,105 posts, read 7,075,695 times
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Christians teach from James 1: 27...``Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this ...To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world ``...... Other than that Jesus taught against religion of men as it was the heart of strife, and contention , and pride and evil hearted on the heart and clean looking deception on the outside ......... See Christianity was not authored to be a religion, but a surrender to a relationship with the living God through the sacrifice and the righteousness of Lord Jesus Christ by repentance of sin into goodness in Christ and receiving the Spirit of God , as born of water by repentance and of the spirit of the living spirit of Christ through an active faith and hope in God and His commands...along with interaction by prayer and development into the fruits of the spirit
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Old 10-19-2013, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,964 posts, read 22,127,476 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post
What I posted was an explanation, do you not read your bible?
Of course I read my Bible.

Quote:
or do you not understand what I posted?
I understood what you posted just fine. It just didn't answer my question.

Quote:
I find it interesting you post on a Christian forum but find the bible to be nothing more than rhetoric.
Cut the sarcasm. I hold the Bible in high regard. Problem is, I can read the same verses as you do and interpret them differently. So, when I ask you a simple yes or no question and just get a bunch of quote from the Bible, I find that approach to be "mere rhetoric."

Quote:
I did not answer your question directly as I expected you or someone else to attack me because of the answer.
Well that's kind of presumptuous of you. Maybe you should try actually having a dialogue with me next time instead of trying to second-guess how I'm going to respond to your posts.

Quote:
No, the gentile is not saved.
So who is? The Jew?

Quote:
I personally do not consider the gentile an "inferior soul" (soul being the whole human) but spiritually they are deficient or lacking.
Thank you. See how easy that was, and how much time you could have saved both of us?
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Old 10-21-2013, 04:21 PM
 
5,147 posts, read 2,533,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torpedos View Post
Jesus did not teach religion. In fact, everytime he was persecuted, Jesus was either in the synagogue, leavening it , or dealing with the leaders of it.
Wasn't the synagogue a 'House of Worship' ?

If Jesus was not teaching religion at Luke 4 vs 15-20, then what was Jesus teaching ?

Didn't Jesus also stress at John 4 vs 23,24 about worship ? Outside of in private homes, where do worshipers meet but in a House of Worship.
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Old 10-21-2013, 04:32 PM
 
5,147 posts, read 2,533,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
Jesus tells us that God our father counts as pure and faultless is this, to look after widows and orphans in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. James 1:27
Seems pretty simple to me... but it is easy to say and hard to do.
Certainly Jesus was making a point about caring for those whose hearts and spirits are suffering. A widow who is rich and beautiful certainly wouldn't need money but her spirit would be injured for the love she has lost. I'm an orphan, but my parents died after I was an adult, and I already had a good life... so I didn't need "stuff", but my heart still hurt.
Yes... maybe widows and orphans need financial assistance and stuff but I suspect their hearts and spirits are what we should look after as well as our own.
Yes, some older widows and young orphans do need material assistance. 1st Timothy 5 vs 9,10 adds: a widow if she is not less than 60 yrs old.
...and all need spiritual assistance especially those of 1st Thess. 5 vs 14,15
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:44 AM
 
9,818 posts, read 6,735,280 times
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Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid View Post
When I first started to question Christianity I believed that the followers of Jesus when he was alive had a much better idea of what religion is supposed to be than the interpretation of the Bible by either myself or my religious leaders.
The religion of Apostles was Judaism. Hope that helps. The NT was not written yet.
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:46 AM
 
9,818 posts, read 6,735,280 times
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Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid View Post

What I do wish to have is a more complete account of what Jesus taught to his followers in his life time. Unfortunately I do not have access to such accounts.
Jesus did not write anything. What you read is word of mouth by the Apostles. This was later edited and written down in letters to other churches.
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