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Old 10-21-2013, 11:28 AM
 
206 posts, read 182,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77
Jesus Christ says: "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you":

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you". (John 15:10-15)



Quote:
Originally Posted by ShepherdMaster View Post
Are you missing the point that Jesus kept the 10 Commandments and therefor remained in good favor (love) with the Father?

He's telling you to keep the law of the Father as he did himself.
Dear friend, the Law of the Father are the commandments that Jesus taught us in the Gospel, not the Old Testament laws that are contrary to the commandments of the Gospel.

Jesus, in the Gospel gave us commandments to have mercy and forgive our fellow men, and Jesus said that He gave us to know all the things He had heard from the Father:

"all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you"

So the true commandments of God are the commandments that Jesus taught us in the Gospel,
not the Old Testament laws that are contrary to the commandments of the Gospel.

Nobody better than Jesus Christ, knows the God's commandments. And Jesus Christ came to the world to teach the men the true God's Law. Then, the Gospel teaches us the true God's Law.
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:41 AM
 
206 posts, read 182,910 times
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Default A great confusion appeared in the world since the fourth century (Emperor Constantine).


A GREAT CONFUSION APPEARED IN THE WORLD since the fourth century (Emperor Constantine).

In the fourth century , the emperors of Rome, who had never wanted the commandments of the Gospel , were those who imposed the belief that all commandments of the Old Testament that ordered punishment of death , sacrifice and slavery, were the commandments of God . Jesus had abolished all those commandments of death and slavery , and the powerful and greedy men reimposed these commandments saying that were "commandments of God."

The greed of the emperors of Rome was against the Gospel, because the Gospel commanded the rich to allocate their assets among the poor ... And Jesus told his disciples not to do as the rulers of nations, whom despotically ruled over others. Jesus came not to be served but to serve:

"Jesus called them together and said," You know that the rulers of the nations tyrannize and their great ones are tyrants over power. Among you there must not be so, but if any of you wants to be great, be your servant, and whoever wants to be first, be servant of all, in the same manner as the son of man is not come to be served but to serve and give his life a ransom for many" (Matthew 20:25-28)

The emperors of Rome never wanted the commandments of the Gospel. So, in the fourth century, they abandoned the commandments of the Gospel and reimposed Old Testament laws to enslave the nations.

And this is the confusion that many religions have lived since the fourth century (Emperor Constantine and his successors). Then, other religions have appeared imposed by the warlords who have also called "commandments of God" to the laws of death and slavery of the Old Testament. And this has led to great confusion in the world and has made the world does not follow the commandments of the Gospel.

And is that the emperors of Rome wanted be worshiped and to live with great riches, and for this reason imposed their religions and laws unto the world.


Since then, the world has experienced major wars and inquisitions, until finally the world came to the two world wars that terrorized the world.
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Old 10-21-2013, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Let me put you all in understanding of what happened. Let me give you a modern day example to understand this. Let's consider the Speed limit.

At some point it was understood that a need to REDUCE INJURY AND DEATH on the Highway was necessary. This is the SPIRIT of the LAW. However to bring this as an understanding to everyone the letter of the law was created which says "OBEY ESTABLISHED SPEED LIMITS". So here we have:

Spirit - Reduce injury and death on the highway
Letter - Obey established speed limits.

Now notice that the Letter was created to teach of the understanding of the Spirit of the Law. Now consider this situation:

Your driving in your car and suddenly a wheel falls off the back of a flatbed truck and begins rolling towards your lane. If you put your breaks on suddenly the car behind you will surely smash into the rear of your vehicle. So you decide to speed up and let it pass between you and the car behind you and nobody gets hurt. However, the cops have pulled you over for not OBEYING the ESTABLISHED SPEED LIMIT - Letter of the law. However, you fulfilled the Spirit of the Law by REDUCING INJURY AND DEATH on the highway. So you should have received MERCY for such an act. Jesus was showing that the LETTER was ordained unto life but was found to be used to execute evil. There is no mercy when the letter is strictly followed.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So what you see is that the Pharisees put the LETTER before the SPIRIT. They didn't understand that the LETTER was only an image for instruction - a schoolmaster to teach of the Spirit. So the LETTER had to go because what was made to be used as instruction in righteousness, man used for evil.
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Old 10-21-2013, 04:20 PM
 
40,209 posts, read 26,833,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Let me put you all in understanding of what happened. Let me give you a modern day example to understand this. Let's consider the Speed limit.

At some point it was understood that a need to REDUCE INJURY AND DEATH on the Highway was necessary. This is the SPIRIT of the LAW. However to bring this as an understanding to everyone the letter of the law was created which says "OBEY ESTABLISHED SPEED LIMITS". So here we have:

Spirit - Reduce injury and death on the highway
Letter - Obey established speed limits.

Now notice that the Letter was created to teach of the understanding of the Spirit of the Law. Now consider this situation:

Your driving in your car and suddenly a wheel falls off the back of a flatbed truck and begins rolling towards your lane. If you put your breaks on suddenly the car behind you will surely smash into the rear of your vehicle. So you decide to speed up and let it pass between you and the car behind you and nobody gets hurt. However, the cops have pulled you over for not OBEYING the ESTABLISHED SPEED LIMIT - Letter of the law. However, you fulfilled the Spirit of the Law by REDUCING INJURY AND DEATH on the highway. So you should have received MERCY for such an act. Jesus was showing that the LETTER was ordained unto life but was found to be used to execute evil. There is no mercy when the letter is strictly followed.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So what you see is that the Pharisees put the LETTER before the SPIRIT. They didn't understand that the LETTER was only an image for instruction - a schoolmaster to teach of the Spirit. So the LETTER had to go because what was made to be used as instruction in righteousness, man used for evil.
Excellent testimony and witness, trettep! It is precisely why we are told that the "letter killeth" but the "Spirit is life." It is why God has "written in our hearts" in the New Covenant and made the OT words "written in ink" obsolete. The scriptures remain God-inspired and "USEFUL"(profitable) . . . but they MUST be read with the Spirit of Christ (the "mind of Christ") by asking WWJT when interpreting them.
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Old 10-21-2013, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Excellent testimony and witness, trettep! It is precisely why we are told that the "letter killeth" but the "Spirit is life." It is why God has "written in our hearts" in the New Covenant and made the OT words "written in ink" obsolete. The scriptures remain God-inspired and "USEFUL"(profitable) . . . but they MUST be read with the Spirit of Christ (the "mind of Christ") by asking WWJT when interpreting them.
Yes, when I was studying this a long time ago, I kept coming into conflict with contradictions and kept trying to work them out to understand the message and then I finally got it and can understand it without the confusion/contradiction.
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Old 10-22-2013, 03:38 AM
 
206 posts, read 182,910 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Jesus was showing that the LETTER was ordained unto life but was found to be used to execute evil. There is no mercy when the letter is strictly followed.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So what you see is that the Pharisees put the LETTER before the SPIRIT. They didn't understand that the LETTER was only an image for instruction - a schoolmaster to teach of the Spirit. So the LETTER had to go because what was made to be used as instruction in righteousness, man used for evil.
Dear friend, in the laws of the Old Testament there are many commands contrary to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

Jesus did not teach us that the laws of the Old Testament were "only an image for instruction". What Jesus taught us is that the Law of the Gospel was the only true Law of God.

Jesus abolished from the Old Testament all laws that were contrary to mercy and forgiveness. And He abolished those laws because WERE NOT LAW OF GOD, but human commandments, because He did not come to abolish the law of God.

The Old Testament contains many precepts of men because God's law was changed by the scribes, as tell us the prophets:

"... My people know not the judgment of Yahweh. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us ? Certainly has changed into a lie the lying pen of the scribes"
(Jeremiah 8: 7-9).


"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).


For this reason, the people were in darkness, because they did not know the true law of God. So God became Man (Jesus Christ) and, in the Gospel, He revealed us the law that really He had given to Moses. And so, the people who were in darkness saw a great light:

"That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up". (Matthew 4:14-15)

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Old 10-22-2013, 04:52 AM
 
206 posts, read 182,910 times
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Default The true Law given by God was a Law of Life

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Excellent testimony and witness, trettep! It is precisely why we are told that the "letter killeth" but the "Spirit is life." It is why God has "written in our hearts" in the New Covenant and made the OT words "written in ink" obsolete.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Yes, when I was studying this a long time ago, I kept coming into conflict with contradictions and kept trying to work them out to understand the message and then I finally got it and can understand it without the confusion/contradiction.
Estimated friends, The letter does not kill when writing is the true Law of God. The commandments that Jesus teaches us in the Gospel are the true Law that God gave to Moses. And these commandments do not kill, they are life.

Instead, many Old Testament laws are laws of death, slavery, wars, sacrifices... These laws were not the Law that God had actually given to Moses. Therefore, Jesus Christ revealed us in the Gospel the Law that God had given Mosés really. Jesus Chist tell us that the Law and the prophets is this:

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12)

Therefore, this is the law that God gave Moses because Jesus himself says that " this is the law and the prophets". This is the law that remains in effect, that Jesus Christ came not to abolish ( "Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets " ) . And from this Law that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel, did not pass "not one jot or tittle". This is the true Law that God gave to Moses.

And this Law is totally contrary to the commandments of the Old Testament that command: "eye for eye , tooth for tooth "; burning daughters were not virgins at marriage; stoned to death disobedient children, women accused of adultery, men collecting firewood Sabbath; precepts that sent to war and kill men , women and children of the conquered peoples...


These commandments contrary to the law of the Gospel are not the law and the prophets.


So all those Old Testament commandments that are contrary to the Law that Jesus taught us, are not the Law that God had really given, only were precepts of men, because the Law of God had been changed by the scribes, as said the prophets:


" ... My people know not the judgment of Yahweh. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Certainly has changed into a lie the lying pen of the scribes" (Jeremiah 8: 7-9).

And Jesus Christ (God made Man) taught us in the Gospel the true Law , the true commandments given by God from beginning and forever. The Gospel's commandments are the God's Law given from beginning and forever.
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Old 10-22-2013, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post
Dear friend, in the laws of the Old Testament there are many commands contrary to the commandments of Jesus Christ.

Jesus did not teach us that the laws of the Old Testament were "only an image for instruction". What Jesus taught us is that the Law of the Gospel was the only true Law of God.


Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Quote:
Jesus abolished from the Old Testament all laws that were contrary to mercy and forgiveness. And He abolished those laws because WERE NOT LAW OF GOD, but human commandments, because He did not come to abolish the law of God.

The Old Testament contains many precepts of men because God's law was changed by the scribes, as tell us the prophets:
Quote:

"... My people know not the judgment of Yahweh. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us ? Certainly has changed into a lie the lying pen of the scribes"
(Jeremiah 8: 7-9).


"Woe to those who give wicked laws and scribes who write tyrannical prescriptions to set aside the poor and violate the rights of the underdog of my people, to rob widows and orphans" (Isaiah 10.1 -2)

"And the land is defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the laws, changed the commandments, broken the everlasting covenant" (Isaiah 24: 5-6).


For this reason, the people were in darkness, because they did not know the true law of God. So God became Man (Jesus Christ) and, in the Gospel, He revealed us the law that really He had given to Moses. And so, the people who were in darkness saw a great light:

"That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up". (Matthew 4:14-15)

Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
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Old 10-23-2013, 05:09 PM
 
206 posts, read 182,910 times
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Default In the fourth century, the emperors of Rome changed the God's Law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
The true law of God given to Moses, over the years, was changed by scribes. Then the schoolmaster was the true law of God as taught by Jesus Christ

Quote:
Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
The Law was given to Moses. Then the scribes changed the Law with many precepts of men. And then the true Law was again taught by Jesus Christ: "and truth came by Jesus Christ"

Quote:
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
The commandments were given to Moses, commandments of life. But after, the scribes wrote many commandments of death and slavery that were not commandments of God, and that is how they became death's commandments.

Jesus Christ is God, and he saw what the scribes made to the Law, so they became man and came to show us the true Law of God.

The true law of God is the law of the Gospel, who returns to teach the commandments of life that God gave to Moses.

The early Christians knew that the Law of the Gospel was the only true law of God, which abolished the law of the Old Testament. The Old Testament law was abolished because it had many precepts of men. But what happened next? ...

Then, in the fourth century, the emperors of Rome (Emperor Constantine and his descendants), who did not loved the commandments of the Gospel, abandoned and drowned the Law of the Gospel, and imposed the belief that the commandments of death and slavery the Old Testament were God's Law.

Jesus commanded the rich hand over their property to the poor and not to kill anyone ... The emperors of Rome did not want these commandments because they wanted to be rich, rule over peoples and kill their enemies, so imposed Old Testament laws. All this confusion came into the world since the fourth century.

Christians must return to the law of the Gospel.
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:45 AM
 
Location: Australia
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@trettep, seems like you re contradicting yourself quite a bit.
How can you say one has to follow the law to have faith in Jesus? Dont you know the law and faith do not mix?
Jesus didnt come to abolish the law, He came to fulfil it. Its the fullfilment of the law that Christ did by sacrificing Himself on the cross for our sins.
Prior to Jesus, man had a hard time reaching God because of their sins. And the law even made it more difficult for them which is why the law is considered as being death unto them. When the law thrived, the people in trying to keep up with the law, actually fell so hard that many of them perished under the law.

Its very important to accept what Jesus has come to fulfil. He is the ultimate sacrifice and we do not need to strive to keep these laws that only lead to death. In saying that, when Jesus said he gave 2 commands

Love God
Love others

Even on those two commands its really almost impossible for anyone to break the law. If we love God and others, we wont hurt our brethrens and we won't fight each other

There is no jew or gentile anymore. All have beein baptised into Christ as One body. And this body is comprised only of those who actually accept Jesus as Lord. What good is it for someone to boast that they are jews (even though we know most of those who claim to be jews today are actually not the real jews) but deny Jesus as being Christ and the only way to The Father.

God is not looking anymore at Jews or Gentiles. God cares only about those who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. He is the ultimate sacrifice for our sins, and Jesus is the One who paved the way for us to boldly enter into the throneroom of grace, and He is our righteousness.

Keeping the law and sticking by it means one is working on their own strength. Im not saying its ok to sin. But we all need to have the knowledge that Jesus is really our righteousness and whatever we do is not by our might or power but by His Spirit that lives in us.

The OT law kills, but in Jesus Christ, we live.
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