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Old 10-25-2013, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Places you dream of
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The law of Moses Jesus came to FUFILL the law, his prophesy, and now we are under the new law- GRACE... first law is LOVE,,, the rest..
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayy900 View Post
Jesus didnt come to abolish the law, He came to fulfil it
Jesus abolished many commandments of the Old Testament because they were not God's law. The Gospel says:

"It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce. Nevertheless I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of prostitution, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced, commits adultery" (Matthew 5:...)


The jews of that time wrote in the law of the Old Testament that could separated from women for many reasons when they tired of them, but Jesus abolished these commandments. These commandments were written into the Old Testament and Jesus Christ abolished them.

"Again you have heard that it was said by them of old not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord. Nevertheless I tell you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for is the footstool of his feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because you can not do a single white or black hair. But let your ' Yes, yes, no, no, because what is more than these cometh of evil" (Matthew 5:...)

The Jews were accustomed to swear in many cases, and so wrote it in the laws of the Old Testament... The Lord abolished these precepts of the oaths.


The law of retaliation ("Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth") ABOLISHED BY JESUS CHRIST

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and whosoever want to get to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also, and whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matthew 5:...)

The Jews were in the habit of applying the talionis law (law of revenge) in their judgments (eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn... and so on.), And so they wrote it in the laws of the old Testament (Exodus 21: 24-25). The Lord abolished this law of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" because it was a law that did not included forgiveness or mercy, then weren't God's Law, because what God likes is the mercy.


"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you.... " (Matthew 5...)

The Jews, often beheaded or hanged his enemies, and not only to them, but then, as says the laws of the Old Testament, entered the conquered peoples and in many cases children and women were slaughtered... Jesus Christ abolished these Old Testament laws and commands us to love our enemies.


Other Old Testament laws abolished by Jesus Christ:

"If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be dead". (Leviticus 20: 10)

"And the daughter of any priest, if she fornicate, dishonor his father; she shall be burnt with fire" (Leviticus 21: 9


That Is not what Jesus did with the adulterous woman in the Gospel Example:

"And the scribes and the Pharisees bring a woman taken in adultery; and having set her in the midst, they say unto him, Teacher, this woman hath been taken in adultery, in the very act. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such: what then sayest thou of her? And this they said, trying him, that they might have whereof to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground.

But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. And they, when they heard it, went out one by one, beginning from the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the midst. And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee? And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more. Again therefore Jesus spake unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life". (Juan 8: 3-12)

With this teaching, Jesus abolished the Old Testament commandments that ordered kill people for various reasons. So far we have collected some examples of Old Testament commandments that Jesus abolished, but the argument that Jesus had with the Jews because of the law, is much broader and at this discussion is devoted a large part of the Gospel. Jesus taught us the true law of God.
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Old 10-25-2013, 06:27 PM
 
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Default Jesus abolished many commandments of the Old Testament because they were not God's Law

ABOUT THE SHABBAT'S LAW OF THE OLD TESTAMENT

Says the Old Testament:

"And while the children of Israel in the wilderness , they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation, and put him in prison, because was not declared what should be done to him. and the Lord said to Moses: man dies, all the congregation shall stone him outside the camp. congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him, and died, as the LORD commanded Moses" (Numbers 15: 32-36)

That's not what Jesus commanded us:

"At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on the Sabbath, and His disciples were hungry and began to pluck heads of grain and eat. Seeing the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do on the day rest. But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did when he and those with him were hungry, how he entered the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful to eat neither he nor those who were with him, but only for the priests ? or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? for I say that one greater than the temple is here. and if you had known what this means, I desire mercy and not sacrifice, not have condemned the innocent, for the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath. " (Matthew 12: 1-8)


"Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.
9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.
10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.........

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. "
(John 5: 8-18)


JESUS DID NOT COME TO ABOLISH THE LAW. BUT, WHAT LAW?

Jesus broke the Sabbath and abolished many other Old Testament commandments. So which is the Law which will not pass one jot or tittle (Matthew 5: 18-19)?


When Jesus said that He had not come to abolish the law of God, many misinterpret it and say that Jesus did not come to abolish the law of the Old Testament. But that is a mistake, because Jesus abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, and we can see it clearly in the quotes I put of the Gospel.

Of the commandments of the Gospel, which are the true Law that God gave to Moses, no one jot no one tittle will pass. But the law of the Old Testament, all what Jesus Christ abolished, already passed, because they were only human regulations. To check this, you can read the following verses of the Gospel: Matthew 5: 21-48, Matthew 12: 1-8, John 5: 8-11, John 5: 16-18, John 8: 3-11 and the whole context of the Gospel.


Quotes from the scriptures that tell us that God's law was changed and that Jesus Christ abolished many laws of the Old Testament and taught us the true law and true commandments of God: Isaiah 29: 13, Jeremiah 8: 7-8, Matthew 15: 7-9, Matthew 5: 21-48, Matthew 7: 12, Matthew 12: 7, Matthew 19: 16-22, Matthew 22: 34-40, John 5: 16-18, John 8: 1-11; Acts 15, Galatians 5, Hebrews 7 and 8.

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Old 10-25-2013, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Australia
22 posts, read 26,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post
Jesus abolished many commandments of the Old Testament because they were not God's law. The Gospel says:

"It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce. Nevertheless I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of prostitution, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced, commits adultery" (Matthew 5:...)


The jews of that time wrote in the law of the Old Testament that could separated from women for many reasons when they tired of them, but Jesus abolished these commandments. These commandments were written into the Old Testament and Jesus Christ abolished them.

"Again you have heard that it was said by them of old not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord. Nevertheless I tell you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for is the footstool of his feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because you can not do a single white or black hair. But let your ' Yes, yes, no, no, because what is more than these cometh of evil" (Matthew 5:...)

The Jews were accustomed to swear in many cases, and so wrote it in the laws of the Old Testament... The Lord abolished these precepts of the oaths.


The law of retaliation ("Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth") ABOLISHED BY JESUS CHRIST

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and whosoever want to get to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also, and whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matthew 5:...)

The Jews were in the habit of applying the talionis law (law of revenge) in their judgments (eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn... and so on.), And so they wrote it in the laws of the old Testament (Exodus 21: 24-25). The Lord abolished this law of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" because it was a law that did not included forgiveness or mercy, then weren't God's Law, because what God likes is the mercy.


"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you.... " (Matthew 5...)

The Jews, often beheaded or hanged his enemies, and not only to them, but then, as says the laws of the Old Testament, entered the conquered peoples and in many cases children and women were slaughtered... Jesus Christ abolished these Old Testament laws and commands us to love our enemies.


Other Old Testament laws abolished by Jesus Christ:

"If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be dead". (Leviticus 20: 10)

"And the daughter of any priest, if she fornicate, dishonor his father; she shall be burnt with fire" (Leviticus 21: 9


That Is not what Jesus did with the adulterous woman in the Gospel Example:

"And the scribes and the Pharisees bring a woman taken in adultery; and having set her in the midst, they say unto him, Teacher, this woman hath been taken in adultery, in the very act. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such: what then sayest thou of her? And this they said, trying him, that they might have whereof to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground.

But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. And they, when they heard it, went out one by one, beginning from the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the midst. And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee? And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more. Again therefore Jesus spake unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life". (Juan 8: 3-12)

With this teaching, Jesus abolished the Old Testament commandments that ordered kill people for various reasons. So far we have collected some examples of Old Testament commandments that Jesus abolished, but the argument that Jesus had with the Jews because of the law, is much broader and at this discussion is devoted a large part of the Gospel. Jesus taught us the true law of God.
I understand what you are quoting but my point is the OT law was given to the people by God in order to set them straight and they were hard laws. That is why a lot of them fell hard under the law.
I believe Jesus came to fulfil the laws. When I say fulfil, we know He was hung on the cross and thats where it was settled. He has covered all our sins (if you believe that he has) so I am not looking at those laws, but I am looking at Christ.

When you are in Christ, He teaches you through the Holy Spirit and He actually writes the law of the Spirit in your heart. I know in my heart not to swear with God's name. No one needs to tell me that. I know its not right to kill, no man needs to tell me that. I know immorality is wrong, no man needs to tell me that. This is what I mean when I said when you are in Christ, He teaches you through the Holy Spirit and you don't have to follow the letters. Its written in your heart.

Those that are too focused on following the letter and trying to keep it always have a hard time, and they are hardly ever happy. Jesus Christ has finished it. Let no one deceive another with false humility or preaching that looks like the gospel but is actually a bondage. There is no bondage for those in Christ Jesus

And concerning the sabbath, I also according to the word of God believe Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, and i find it wierd that many people are so focused on the sabbath and keeping it. Jesus really did prove that He is more important than the sabbath. The Jews would rather keep the sabbath than help their fellow neighbors. These are things Jesus cancelled.
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Old 10-27-2013, 06:25 PM
 
206 posts, read 182,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayy900 View Post
I understand what you are quoting but my point is the OT law was given to the people by God in order to set them straight and they were hard laws.
Jesus Christ tells us that the Law of God is the Law He teaches us in the Gospel, because He himself tells us that this is the Law and the Prophets: Matthew 7:12.

The true law of God was not hard, was bearable, because Jesus is God, and He tells us that His burden is light. Then, the laws of the Old Testament that were hard, they were not actually God's Law.


Quote:
I believe Jesus came to fulfil the laws.
The Lord came to fulfill the Law which He Himself taught in the Gospel (Matthew 7:12, Matthew 19:16-22 ...). Jesus did not meet many Old Testament laws and abolished those laws, as we see in Matthew 5:21-48, John 8:3-11, John 5:16-18 and elsewhere in the Gospel.

Many, poorly taught, believe that Jesus Christ came to fulfill the Old Testament laws, but that's wrong, because Jesus Christ only fulfilled the commandments that He himself teaches us in the Gospel.

Quote:
Those that are too focused on following the letter and trying to keep it always have a hard time
Gospel commandments are written in the Gospel for all Christians to know them. Those who follow their feelings, abandon the commandments of the Gospel and go behind the laws of the Old Testament.

All those who say they follow their
feelings, in the end, impose Old Testament laws saying they are commandments of God. This is a great contradiction.

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Old 10-27-2013, 08:31 PM
 
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ROM 7:11 For sin [when without Christ], taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. ROM 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

ROM 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. ROM 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

ROM 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
ROM 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


IS 8:20 "To the law and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. IS 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; He will magnify the law, and make it honorable." The Testimony of Jesus is that He gives the Spirit to love and obey the law. Grace magnifies the law and makes it honorable.

The only things done away with in the Old Testament were temporary ordinances, most notably the sacrifices, food laws, Saturday Sabbaths, special Sabbaths and thinking that the law in and of itself saves. Only Grace through faith in Christ can establish the laws of God in the heart.

Last edited by garya123; 10-27-2013 at 08:40 PM..
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Old 10-28-2013, 12:02 AM
 
Location: California USA
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Quote:
WHICH IS THE LAW OF GOD?

The Old Testament? The New Testament? Or the Gospel?...

The commandments of the Gospel, are very different to the commandments of the Old Testament, for all the commandments of the Gospel are merciful, but many Old Testament commandments commands death sentences, wars and slavery.
2 Timothy 3:16,17: "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work."

The OT, NT, and Gospel all have something to teach and learn from. For example, the OT is replete with faithful men and women, Abraham, Ester, Noah, Daniel, Job, Ruth, etc as well as prophecies relating not only with the coming of the Messiah but also prophecies to reinforce the Bible as inspired of God.

However as God's purpose advanced through Jesus it isn't surprising that changes would occur in his requirements for his servants as one covenant was concluded and a new one promulgated.

Matthew 5:17: "Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets, I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill."

Colossians 2:13,14, Furthermore, though you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcised state of your flesh, [God] made you alive with Christ. He kindly forgave us all our trespasses and blotted out the handwritten document against us, which consisted of decrees and which was in opposition to us; and He has taken it out of the way...."

Once Jesus fulfilled the Law God's people were no longer under obligation to it. Hence the requirements for serving God evolved and while some commandments under the Law overlap with what is expected of Christians others are no longer in force.
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:49 PM
 
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Default There are two laws in scripture : one of life and one of death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
ROM 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
You must understand what Paul is saying, that there are two laws: the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus and the law of sin and death.

The commandments of the Gospel taught by Jesus are the Law of Life. And the Old Testament laws that were abolished by Jesus, are the law of sin and death.

Christians are no longer under the laws of the death of the Old Testament. Christians now live the Law of the Spirit of Life, which are the commandments of the Gospel.

The Law of the Old Testament death was abolished by Jesus Christ, because in that law had many commandments of men that God had not commanded.
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Old 10-28-2013, 06:34 PM
 
206 posts, read 182,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
2 Timothy 3:16,17: "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work."

Is all Scripture inspired?

Some Bibles say so:

"Every scripture (is) divinely inspired , and profitable for teaching, for conviction , for correction, for instruction in righteousness " (2 Timothy 3:16)

As we see, the word "is " is in italics , indicating that the word "is " is added and it is not from Scripture ( it is not in the Greek texts or Latin ) .

Many Bibles that write this verse thus say that "All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching ... " , but if we examine this verse in other Bibles, other bibles not tell us that all the scripture is inspired by God, others Bibles say that the scripture that is inspired is what is profitable for teaching . Let's see :

"For all Scripture divinely inspired is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness" ( 2 Timothy 3:16).

This is how it is written in many Bibles , with the meaning that writing that is useful is the scripture divinely inspired and not all scripture : "all Scripture divinely inspired is profitable for teaching... ". This is the reality. The truth is that many religions in the Middle Ages made ​​corrections of the scriptures and also burned many scriptures saying they were corrupted .


Quote:
Matthew 5:17: "Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets, I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill."
The law that Jesus came not to abolish is the Law of the Gospel

"Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets... " (Matthew 5: 17-20) .

In these words are based many to tell us that Jesus Christ came not to abolish many commandments of the Old Testament, but that is a mistake because these gospel words do not refer to the law of the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, as we see in Matthew 5: 21-48 and other parts of the Gospel.

The words of Jesus Christ in this famous verse (Matthew 5: 17), which tells us that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, refers to the true Law of God, which is the Law that Jesus Christ himself taught us in the Gospel. Jesus Christ teaches that the law and the prophets that He did not come to abolish is the following:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." (Matthew 7: 12) .

Therefore, this is the law that God gave to Israel because Jesus Christ himself says that " this is the law and the prophets." This is the law that remains in effect, that Jesus Christ came not to abolish ("Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets ") . And of this law did pass " not one jot not one tittle ", of the Law that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel and that is the true Law that God gave to Moses.

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Old 10-28-2013, 06:39 PM
 
2,532 posts, read 2,018,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post
You must understand what Paul is saying, that there are two laws: the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus and the law of sin and death.

The commandments of the Gospel taught by Jesus are the Law of Life. And the Old Testament laws that were abolished by Jesus, are the law of sin and death.

Christians are no longer under the laws of the death of the Old Testament. Christians now live the Law of the Spirit of Life, which are the commandments of the Gospel.

The Law of the Old Testament death was abolished by Jesus Christ, because in that law had many commandments of men that God had not commanded.
You are off on your understanding.
What we have in the Bible are not the some extra Biblical commands written by the lying pen of Scribes who taught contrary to what Moses taught. When Jesus said, "You have heard it said but I say---" He was pointing out that those Scribes were not called by God as was Moses and had the wrong interpretation of what God said. Theologians and all false interpreters of Scripture are still doing the same thing today. They say but God says differantly. They are interpreting Scripture wrongly and putting it forth as though it were true.

The law is spiritual, Holy and just, not sin, but if without Christ they stir up condemnation in the carnal man because of what is called the law of sin and death, not that the law is sin but rather we are sinful if without Christ.
ROM 7:7 "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, You shalt not covet."



ROM 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
ROM 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
ROM 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin [the law of sin and death] might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
ROM 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
ROM 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. [which is in my body/carnal mind, not the law]

Anyone born of the Spirit loves from the Spirit the laws of God and keeps His commandments which boil down to, love God and your neighbor. The law itself can not save because only Christ can fulfill the law in those who have His Spirit.

We are not to seek the law for salvation but rather Christ who imparts the spiritual nature of the law. But does that mean you do it all perfectly? No. It is called the "hope of righteousness". You can not call it hope if you have it all already. But rather the Scriptures say that He has begun a good work in us and that we should grow in grace and in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Last edited by garya123; 10-28-2013 at 07:30 PM..
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