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Old 10-28-2013, 11:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post
WHICH IS THE LAW OF GOD?

The Old Testament? The New Testament? Or the Gospel?...

The commandments of the Gospel, are very different to the commandments of the Old Testament, for all the commandments of the Gospel are merciful, but many Old Testament commandments commands death sentences, wars and slavery.

The Law of God taught by Jesus Christ

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7:12)

What God wants is the mercy

"If you had known what this means, I want mercy and not sacrifice, you wouldn’t have condemned the innocent" (Matthew 12:7)

Jesus commanded to forgive seventy times seven:

"Then Peter came and said: Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Till seven? Jesus said: I tell you, not seven times, but seventy times seven." (Matthew 18 :21-22)

Jesus speaks to the pharisees about the Law

When the Pharisees heard that Jesus had left the Sadducees speechless, they met together. One of them, a legal expert, tested him. Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? He replied, “You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your being, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You must love your neighbor as you love yourself. All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands” (Matthew 22:34-40)

Jesus teaches to a rich man, the precepts of the Law

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions" (Matthew 19:16-22)

These are the commandments of the Gospel, which are very different to the commandments of the Old Testament, for all the commandments of the Gospel are merciful, but many Old Testament commandments commands death sentences, wars and slavery.

So which is the law that the Christians must follow?

The law that Jesus CAME NOT TO ABOLISH is the GOSPEL'S LAW

To the extent of you following a law or laws mentioned in the bible is the extent you are not resting in the finished work of Christ. When you believe right, you will live right. Under grace that Jesus died to give us, obedience is a fruit of right believing. Under the law, obedience was the root needed to be blessed. You cannot earn God's favor. God's favor is given to us by the gift of righteousness Jesus died to give us.


Joseph Prince - The Power Of Right Believing - 21 Apr 13 - YouTube
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romans519 View Post
To the extent of you following a law or laws mentioned in the bible is the extent you are not resting in the finished work of Christ. When you believe right, you will live right. Under grace that Jesus died to give us, obedience is a fruit of right believing
That is a philosophy of men very extended by many religions, but Jesus gave us His commandments to fulfill them. Now I put the commandments taught by Jesus Christ.

The Law of God taught by Jesus Christ

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12)

Jesus teaches to a rich man, the precepts of the Law

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions" (Matthew 19: 16-22

These are the commandments of the Gospel, which are very different to the commandments of the Old Testament, for all the commandments of the Gospel are merciful, but many Old Testament commandments commands death sentences, wars and slavery.


These commandmets of death sentences, wars and slavery aren't God's commandments.

Jesus Christ preached us the true God's Law, but Roma's emperors (emperor Constantine, IV century) don't wanted the Gospel's Law and they imposed the Old Testament's laws saying these laws were the God's commandments. Since then, the Gospel's Law was unknown to the christian people as the only God's Law and the God's true Law.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:53 AM
 
4,431 posts, read 4,084,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romans519 View Post
To the extent of you following a law or laws mentioned in the bible is the extent you are not resting in the finished work of Christ. When you believe right, you will live right. Under grace that Jesus died to give us, obedience is a fruit of right believing. Under the law, obedience was the root needed to be blessed. You cannot earn God's favor. God's favor is given to us by the gift of righteousness Jesus died to give us.


Joseph Prince - The Power Of Right Believing - 21 Apr 13 - YouTube
While you cant earn God's favor, God still command obedience to his laws. And to be clear, I am not referring to the old ceremonial and sacrificial system laws, as those have all been fulfilled. Everything else still stands and if we Love God and Jesus will will obey the commands not to murder, steal, live in sexual immorality, lie, and worship other Gods.

Faith in Jesus saves you, but you still have a life to live after you make that commitment, so you have commands to live by to show you are his follower, that is how Christians are set apart from the world.
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Old 10-31-2013, 11:01 AM
 
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Default Jesus abolished the commandments written in the Old Testament about Sabbath.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
While you cant earn God's favor, God still command obedience to his laws. And to be clear, I am not referring to the old ceremonial and sacrificial system laws, as those have all been fulfilled. Everything else still stands
Everything else still stands?...

Jesus did not fulfill the commandments Jewish of Sabbath day because missing to the charity. And those commandments Jewish about the Sabbath were written in the Old Testament. Those commandments of the Old Testament did not follow God's commandments.

The Jews, following the commandments of the Old Testament, killed the people by collect firewood on the Sabbath. So the Old Testament tells us:

"And while the children of Israel in the wilderness , they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation, and put him in prison, because was not declared what should be done to him. and the Lord said to Moses: man dies, all the congregation shall stone him outside the camp. congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him, and died, as the LORD commanded Moses" (Numbers 15: 32-36)

Jesus abolished those commandments written in the Old Testament:

"At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on the Sabbath, and His disciples were hungry and began to pluck heads of grain and eat. Seeing the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do on the day rest...... I say that one greater than the temple is here. and if you had known what this means, I desire mercy and not sacrifice, not have condemned the innocent, for the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath. " (Matthew 12: 1-8)

"And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" (John 5: 8-18)

Friend SAAN, you see that Jesus Christ not only abolished many Jewish traditions, but also many commandments written in the Old Testament.

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Old 10-31-2013, 11:17 AM
 
4,431 posts, read 4,084,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post
Everything else still stands?...

Jesus did not fulfill the commandments Jewish of Sabbath day because missing to the charity. And those commandments Jewish about the Sabbath were written in the Old Testament. Those commandments of the Old Testament did not follow God's commandments.

The Jews, following the commandments of the Old Testament, killed the people by collect firewood on the Sabbath. So the Old Testament tells us:

"And while the children of Israel in the wilderness , they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation, and put him in prison, because was not declared what should be done to him. and the Lord said to Moses: man dies, all the congregation shall stone him outside the camp. congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him, and died, as the LORD commanded Moses" (Numbers 15: 32-36)

Jesus abolished those commandments written in the Old Testament:

"At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on the Sabbath, and His disciples were hungry and began to pluck heads of grain and eat. Seeing the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do on the day rest...... I say that one greater than the temple is here. and if you had known what this means, I desire mercy and not sacrifice, not have condemned the innocent, for the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath. " (Matthew 12: 1-8)

"And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" (John 5: 8-18)

Friend SAAN, you see that Jesus Christ not only abolished many Jewish traditions, but also many commandments written in the Old Testament.

I do agree Jesus fulfilled and abolished many things in the OT like the ceremonial and sacrificial laws that were to atone for sin, because Jesus himself became the perfect sacrifice ,so no more ceremonial and sacrificial stuff was needed because they were fulfilled when he died and rose again.

When I said everything else still stands, I was referring to the moral laws. Jesus didnt break the Sabbath because he never sinned. Jesus came to show the Pharisees how the law was to be lived and all the errors in all the extra laws they added on to Gods laws which became more tradition, than scripture.

Numbers 15:35


35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.


While it is in scripture, it is not one of the 613 commands God gave to the Hebrews to follow.



Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)
613 commandments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:33 PM
 
1,473 posts, read 1,067,880 times
Reputation: 375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post
WHICH IS THE LAW OF GOD?

The Old Testament? The New Testament? Or the Gospel?...

The commandments of the Gospel, are very different to the commandments of the Old Testament, for all the commandments of the Gospel are merciful, but many Old Testament commandments commands death sentences, wars and slavery.

The Law of God taught by Jesus Christ

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7:12)

What God wants is the mercy

"If you had known what this means, I want mercy and not sacrifice, you wouldn’t have condemned the innocent" (Matthew 12:7)

Jesus commanded to forgive seventy times seven:

"Then Peter came and said: Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Till seven? Jesus said: I tell you, not seven times, but seventy times seven." (Matthew 18 :21-22)

Jesus speaks to the pharisees about the Law

When the Pharisees heard that Jesus had left the Sadducees speechless, they met together. One of them, a legal expert, tested him. Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? He replied, “You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your being, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You must love your neighbor as you love yourself. All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands” (Matthew 22:34-40)

Jesus teaches to a rich man, the precepts of the Law

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions" (Matthew 19:16-22)

These are the commandments of the Gospel, which are very different to the commandments of the Old Testament, for all the commandments of the Gospel are merciful, but many Old Testament commandments commands death sentences, wars and slavery.

So which is the law that the Christians must follow?

The law that Jesus CAME NOT TO ABOLISH is the GOSPEL'S LAW

Porque77, I'm just curious as to how far you are taking the idea of the New Testament law being the only law. Because of the two greatest commandments, are you also advocating Situationism (Situational Ethics) or perhaps Graded Absolutism?
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:06 PM
 
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Default Jesus abolished many commandments written in the Old Testament

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Jesus didnt break the Sabbath
The commandment written in the Old Testament commanded not to do any work on the Sabbath. And Jesus abolished that commandment.

Jesus abolished those commandments written in the Old Testament:

"At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on the Sabbath, and His disciples were hungry and began to pluck heads of grain and eat. Seeing the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do on the day rest...... I say that one greater than the temple is here. and if you had known what this means, I desire mercy and not sacrifice, not have condemned the innocent, for the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath. " (Matthew 12: 1-8)

"And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" (John 5: 8-18)

You see that Jesus Christ not only abolished many Jewish traditions, but also many commandments written in the Old Testament.

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Old 11-01-2013, 02:14 PM
 
206 posts, read 182,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrhockney View Post
Porque77, I'm just curious as to how far you are taking the idea of the New Testament law being the only law.
Not is that, because the New Testament also says many things, but it is the Gospel that gives us the true law of God, according to all that Jesus taught us.

Notice what Jesus says:


"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12)

Jesus teaches to a rich man, the precepts of the Law

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions" (Matthew 19: 16-22

These are the commandments of the Gospel, which are very different to the commandments of the Old Testament, for all the commandments of the Gospel are merciful, but many Old Testament commandments commands death sentences, wars and slavery.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:04 PM
 
4,431 posts, read 4,084,710 times
Reputation: 3574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post
The commandment written in the Old Testament commanded not to do any work on the Sabbath. And Jesus abolished that commandment.

Jesus abolished those commandments written in the Old Testament:

"At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on the Sabbath, and His disciples were hungry and began to pluck heads of grain and eat. Seeing the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do on the day rest...... I say that one greater than the temple is here. and if you had known what this means, I desire mercy and not sacrifice, not have condemned the innocent, for the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath. " (Matthew 12: 1-8)

"And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" (John 5: 8-18)

You see that Jesus Christ not only abolished many Jewish traditions, but also many commandments written in the Old Testament.

Matthew 5:17

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.


Jesus didn't abolish any laws before he died as he was under the law and follow it perfectly. The Jews wanted to kill him because they thought he broke what they thought was wrong and Jesus many times broke down to the Pharisees what is right and what is wrong on the Sabbath. Healing someone on the Sabbath was considered a good work and Jesus said it is okay to do good works on the Sabbath.


The day on which this took place was a Sabbath, 10 and so the Jewish leaders said to the man who had been healed, “It is the Sabbath; the law forbids you to carry your mat.”

These are clearly added lows by the Pharisees, as God himself never anywhere in the 1st 5 books of the bible said it is wrong to carry a mat. The Pharisees added hundreds of extra laws which Jesus spoke against as traditions of man that are not the commandments of God.
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Matthew 5:17

17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Jesus didn't abolish any laws before he died as he was under the law and follow it perfectly.
The law that Jesus came not to abolish is the Law of the Gospel

"Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets... " (Matthew 5: 17-20) .

In these words are based many to tell us that Jesus Christ came not to abolish many commandments of the Old Testament, but that is a mistake because these gospel words do not refer to the law of the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, as we see in Matthew 5: 21-48 and other parts of the Gospel.

The words of Jesus Christ in this famous verse (Matthew 5: 17), which tells us that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, refers to the true Law of God, which is the Law that Jesus Christ himself taught us in the Gospel. Jesus Christ teaches that the law and the prophets that He did not come to abolish is the following:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." (Matthew 7: 12) .

Therefore, this is the law that God gave to Israel because Jesus Christ himself says that " this is the law and the prophets." This is the law that remains in effect, that Jesus Christ came not to abolish ("Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets ") . And of this law did pass " not one jot not one tittle ", of the Law that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel and that is the true Law that God gave to Moses.
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