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Old 04-30-2017, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
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Lol.
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Old 05-07-2017, 02:13 PM
 
206 posts, read 182,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
Lol.
What do you mean?
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Old 05-07-2017, 03:29 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
4,232 posts, read 652,531 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post

Jesus abolished many Old Testament commandments because they were only commandments of men. For example the law that commanded "eye for eye and tooth for tooth". Jesus abolished this law. And He annulled it because they were not true law of God but precept of men.
Hmmm.. it seems to me that Jesus did not abolish that commandment, an eye for an eye is you reap what you sow.

The scriptures are based around law given ..... rebellion .... judgement ........ and the cycles repeat
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:56 AM
 
206 posts, read 182,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meerkat2 View Post
Hmmm.. it seems to me that Jesus did not abolish that commandment, an eye for an eye is you reap what you sow.

The scriptures are based around law given ..... rebellion .... judgement ........ and the cycles repeat
The true Law of God are the commandments that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel. And this is the Law that Jesus taught and complied. Jesus did not keep the Old Testament precepts that commanded men to do harm and to kill people.

Jesus abolished the commandment that commanded men to apply an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, because Jesus said "whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also," then no man should injure or kill other men. Therefore, the "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" was annulled by Jesus:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and whosoever want to get to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also, and whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matthew 5:...)

Jesus, with his teachings and his own example, annulled the Old Testament laws that commanded men to do harm and to kill people, because Jesus, when the Jews brought before him a woman accused of adultery, said to throw the first stone against the woman any man who had never sinned. Let's see:

"But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. And they, when they heard it, went out one by one, beginning from the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the midst". (Juan 8:3-12)


As you see, Jesus said: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her". So no man should kill other men, and nor no man should have killed other men in any age, for all men are sinners.

And Jesus, who is the only one free from sin, did not condemn the woman either:


"And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee? And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more". (Juan 8:3-12)

You must understand that Jesus, with his teachings and his own example, annulled the Old Testament laws that commanded men to kill people, since Jesus abolished from the old testament all the commandments that were not true Law of God, but precepts of men, because Jesus did not come to abolish the true Law of God.

The Law that Jesus came not to abolish is the Law of the Gospel

The Law that Jesus came not to abolish, from which shall pass not one jot or one tittle, is the Law of the Gospel, which is the true Law of God. But Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:31-48, Matthew 12:1-8, John 5:8-11, John 5:16-18, John 8:3-11 and the whole context of the Gospel). And He abolished them because weren't God's commandments, but precepts of men.

The Gospel says: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.... one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" (Matthew 5:17-20) .


In these words are based many religions to tell us that Jesus Christ came not to abolish the commandments of the Old Testament, but that is a mistake because these gospel words do not refer to the law of the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, as we see in Matthew 5: 21-48 and other parts of the Gospel.

The words of Jesus Christ in this famous verse (Matthew 5: 17), which tells us that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, refers to the true Law of God, which is the Law that Jesus Christ himself taught us in the Gospel. Jesus Christ teaches that the law and the prophets that He did not come to abolish is the following:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12) .

Therefore, this is the law that God gave to Israel because Jesus Christ himself says that "this is the law and the prophets". This is the law that remains in effect, that Jesus Christ came not to abolish ("Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets"). And of this law did pass "not one jot not one tittle", of the Law that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel and that is the true Law that God gave to Moses.

Last edited by Porque77; 08-13-2017 at 10:09 AM..
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Old 08-13-2017, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,795 posts, read 4,966,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post

Jesus, with his teachings and his own example, annulled the Old Testament laws that commanded men to do harm and to kill people, because Jesus, when the Jews brought before him a woman accused of adultery, said to throw the first stone against the woman any man who had never sinned. Let's see:


You must understand that Jesus, with his teachings and his own example, annulled the Old Testament laws that commanded men to kill people, since Jesus abolished from the old testament all the commandments that were not true Law of God, but precepts of men, because Jesus did not come to abolish the true Law of God.

The Law that Jesus came not to abolish is the Law of the Gospel

The Law that Jesus came not to abolish, from which shall pass not one jot or one tittle, is the Law of the Gospel, which is the true Law of God. But Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:31-48, Matthew 12:1-8, John 5:8-11, John 5:16-18, John 8:3-11 and the whole context of the Gospel). And He abolished them because weren't God's commandments, but precepts of men.

The Gospel says: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.... one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" (Matthew 5:17-20) .

In these words are based many religions to tell us that Jesus Christ came not to abolish the commandments of the Old Testament, but that is a mistake because these gospel words do not refer to the law of the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, as we see in Matthew 5: 21-48 and other parts of the Gospel.

The words of Jesus Christ in this famous verse (Matthew 5: 17), which tells us that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, refers to the true Law of God, which is the Law that Jesus Christ himself taught us in the Gospel. Jesus Christ teaches that the law and the prophets that He did not come to abolish is the following:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12) .

Therefore, this is the law that God gave to Israel because Jesus Christ himself says that "this is the law and the prophets". This is the law that remains in effect, that Jesus Christ came not to abolish ("Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets"). And of this law did pass "not one jot not one tittle", of the Law that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel and that is the true Law that God gave to Moses.





Which is it?


Is the law the word of God?
Is Jesus the word of God?
Is some of the word of God evil?
Did Jesus come to end the law?
Did Jesus come to abolish the law?


What?


Jesus has a new law?




Please feel free to write down the new law so that all can see, and please feel free to take each of the laws of God and show what you think they actually mean.


If any of the laws of God are not the laws of God, Please feel free to show which laws you are discussing and how they are not laws of God.






WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?




You quote how Jesus did not come to end or abolish the laws of Moses but somehow you have found a new law that replaces the laws of Moses and that this new law is the true law?


Please feel free to give us this true righteous law of yours that replaces the ungodly commandments of God, I mean, you are the one who seems to have a problem, are you going to show a Jesus who didn't come to end or abolish the laws while replacing the laws of God? That is fine, we will hear you out and look at your new laws and we will compare them with the laws of Moses, these laws that Jesus didn't come to end and he didn't come to abolish but you claim there is a true law? We would be very happy for you to go ahead and write those laws out seeing how they are better laws than the laws of God.


I will be patiently waiting for your new list of laws, the laws Jesus didn't come to abolish or end, but somehow they are true honest laws, I hear you brother, tell us how Jesus took each one of the laws of Moses and taught secrets of the laws of Moses?


I can help you.


But do you actually believe what you are saying, or do you even understand what you are saying?
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
9,279 posts, read 5,491,414 times
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In the OT "an eye for an eye" WAS a mitigation of what generally occurred in ancient times. If someone stole your pig---you went out and stole five of his cows. If someone broke your son's finger, you went out and broke his son's arm.

So their was definitely an increase in the morality of men dealing with one another when the Deuteronomic Laws were written.

However, when Jesus came along, He was saying "that's not enough." Go further. It's time for man's morality to grow further.

He did that with adultery--refraining from the act is not enough--it must include harnessing one's thoughts as well. Jesus expected more than the OT was giving.

But take a look at our "christian" society. Show sex in a movie and it is deemed anti-Christ. But movies are filled with vengeance and payback that goes far beyond what the original "evil" was. Look at our justice system that believes longer and longer sentences actually work. I believe it was in 1994 that some state was considering trying a 14 year old girl as an adult for selling marijuana for the third time--if they had she would have been confined to prison for the rest of her life!!

So the LAW may have been adequate for the circumstances of an earlier day, but Jesus expected us to grow out of that LAW and into a new law based on love. It's just that no matter how "Christian" we might wish to appear and brag about to the rest of the world, most christians love violence when it is being meted out on whoever they currently consider "evil."

It's no wonder the rest of the world is disgusted with our brand of Christianity which is one of convenience that rarely prevents us from acting with violence behind the cloak of the State or the Nation.
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Old 08-15-2017, 12:18 AM
 
8,671 posts, read 3,103,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
In the OT "an eye for an eye" WAS a mitigation of what generally occurred in ancient times. If someone stole your pig---you went out and stole five of his cows. If someone broke your son's finger, you went out and broke his son's arm.

So their was definitely an increase in the morality of men dealing with one another when the Deuteronomic Laws were written.

However, when Jesus came along, He was saying "that's not enough." Go further. It's time for man's morality to grow further.

He did that with adultery--refraining from the act is not enough--it must include harnessing one's thoughts as well. Jesus expected more than the OT was giving.

But take a look at our "christian" society. Show sex in a movie and it is deemed anti-Christ. But movies are filled with vengeance and payback that goes far beyond what the original "evil" was. Look at our justice system that believes longer and longer sentences actually work. I believe it was in 1994 that some state was considering trying a 14 year old girl as an adult for selling marijuana for the third time--if they had she would have been confined to prison for the rest of her life!!

So the LAW may have been adequate for the circumstances of an earlier day, but Jesus expected us to grow out of that LAW and into a new law based on love. It's just that no matter how "Christian" we might wish to appear and brag about to the rest of the world, most christians love violence when it is being meted out on whoever they currently consider "evil."

It's no wonder the rest of the world is disgusted with our brand of Christianity which is one of convenience that rarely prevents us from acting with violence behind the cloak of the State or the Nation.
No, Christ new the Law and wields a double edged sword.
All those men who were ready to accuse the woman of adultery.
They claimed she was caught in the act.

Think on that for a while.
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Old 08-15-2017, 07:32 AM
 
8,671 posts, read 3,103,465 times
Reputation: 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
In the OT "an eye for an eye" WAS a mitigation of what generally occurred in ancient times. If someone stole your pig---you went out and stole five of his cows. If someone broke your son's finger, you went out and broke his son's arm.

So their was definitely an increase in the morality of men dealing with one another when the Deuteronomic Laws were written.

However, when Jesus came along, He was saying "that's not enough." Go further. It's time for man's morality to grow further.

He did that with adultery--refraining from the act is not enough--it must include harnessing one's thoughts as well. Jesus expected more than the OT was giving.

But take a look at our "christian" society. Show sex in a movie and it is deemed anti-Christ. But movies are filled with vengeance and payback that goes far beyond what the original "evil" was. Look at our justice system that believes longer and longer sentences actually work. I believe it was in 1994 that some state was considering trying a 14 year old girl as an adult for selling marijuana for the third time--if they had she would have been confined to prison for the rest of her life!!

So the LAW may have been adequate for the circumstances of an earlier day, but Jesus expected us to grow out of that LAW and into a new law based on love. It's just that no matter how "Christian" we might wish to appear and brag about to the rest of the world, most christians love violence when it is being meted out on whoever they currently consider "evil."

It's no wonder the rest of the world is disgusted with our brand of Christianity which is one of convenience that rarely prevents us from acting with violence behind the cloak of the State or the Nation.
A wicked messenger falls into evil, but a faithful emissary brings healing.



12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
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Old 08-19-2017, 12:41 PM
 
206 posts, read 182,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
Which is it?


Is the law the word of God?
Is Jesus the word of God?
Is some of the word of God evil?
Did Jesus come to end the law?
Did Jesus come to abolish the law?


What?


Jesus has a new law? ................
Hannibal, for you to understand, you must read well what I say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post
The true Law of God are the commandments that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel. And this is the Law that Jesus taught and complied. Jesus did not keep the Old Testament precepts that commanded men to do harm and to kill people.

Jesus abolished the commandment that commanded men to apply an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, because Jesus said "whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also," then no man should injure or kill other men. Therefore, the "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" was annulled by Jesus:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and whosoever want to get to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also, and whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matthew 5:...)

Jesus, with his teachings and his own example, annulled the Old Testament laws that commanded men to do harm and to kill people, because Jesus, when the Jews brought before him a woman accused of adultery, said to throw the first stone against the woman any man who had never sinned. Let's see:

"But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. And they, when they heard it, went out one by one, beginning from the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the midst". (Juan 8:3-12)


As you see, Jesus said: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her". So no man should kill other men, and nor no man should have killed other men in any age, for all men are sinners.

And Jesus, who is the only one free from sin, did not condemn the woman either:


"And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee? And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more". (Juan 8:3-12)

You must understand that Jesus, with his teachings and his own example, annulled the Old Testament laws that commanded men to kill people, since Jesus abolished from the old testament all the commandments that were not true Law of God, but precepts of men, because Jesus did not come to abolish the true Law of God.

The Law that Jesus came not to abolish is the Law of the Gospel

The Law that Jesus came not to abolish, from which shall pass not one jot or one tittle, is the Law of the Gospel, which is the true Law of God. But Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:31-48, Matthew 12:1-8, John 5:8-11, John 5:16-18, John 8:3-11 and the whole context of the Gospel). And He abolished them because weren't God's commandments, but precepts of men.

The Gospel says: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.... one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" (Matthew 5:17-20) .


In these words are based many religions to tell us that Jesus Christ came not to abolish the commandments of the Old Testament, but that is a mistake because these gospel words do not refer to the law of the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, as we see in Matthew 5: 21-48 and other parts of the Gospel.

The words of Jesus Christ in this famous verse (Matthew 5: 17), which tells us that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, refers to the true Law of God, which is the Law that Jesus Christ himself taught us in the Gospel. Jesus Christ teaches that the law and the prophets that He did not come to abolish is the following:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12) .

Therefore, this is the law that God gave to Israel because Jesus Christ himself says that "this is the law and the prophets". This is the law that remains in effect, that Jesus Christ came not to abolish ("Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets"). And of this law did pass "not one jot not one tittle", of the Law that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel and that is the true Law that God gave to Moses.
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Old 08-19-2017, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,795 posts, read 4,966,211 times
Reputation: 1501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porque77 View Post
Hannibal, for you to understand, you must read well what I say:
You don't know what you are talking about, and I am not trying to insult you, you just don't know anything about the laws or the covenants, a lot of people don't. The New testament is a Jewish book, not a Gentile book, it is a book that leads Gentiles into Judaism, and when you show a lawless Jesus, all you do is prove to the Jew that Jesus could not have been the Messiah.


I am not sure what makes a person defy historical fact, and the historical fact is that Christianity was a legal sect of Judaism for over 100 years until Christianity ended, and then a new religion began and took the same name as Christianity. They took the temples of all the high holy pagan Gods, they converted to all the Sabbaths and Holy days of all the pagan Gods of Rome and Babylon and Egypt, and they called these gods,'' Jesus,'' They stand in Rome with an obelisk dedicated to a walking God but not Jesus, this God walked on the earth in the days of Jesus and an obelisk was raised at the temple in such an abomination that couldn't even be imagined because an obelisk represents a Phallus, and this of another God at the Temple of God.


Jerusalem was cursed by this NEW Christianity and Rome became the new Holy place to worship on the Sabbaths and feasts of a Babylonian Messiah named Tammuz.


Although the whole book of Revelation is written to teach the Pagan Christian, they still don't get that they are the ones in Babylon keeping the ways of the Babylonian Messiah. Christianity is the only people in the world who are keeping the ways of the Messiah of Babylon alive and yet they don't even know they worship Tammuz, although they keep everything that teaches his resurrection, they call him Jesus as if Jesus was the Babylonian Messiah while they keep all his ways.


These new Christians wiped the first Christianity off the face of the planet, there have been no Gentile under the covenant of Jesus ever since the worship system of God was made illegal.






Porque 77, how in the world do you figure yourself in the religion of Jesus?


Just because you say ,'' Jesus?''


Jesus said that whoever keeps the laws of Moses and teaches others to keep the laws of Moses would be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.




Now you say that you believe in Jesus and you are in his religion, but you can't even admit the fact that Jesus was correct.


Your mentality would have to prove Jesus incorrect, not to mention that Paul never stopped practicing Judaism. Paul was brought into court time and time again, it was a MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, and each time Paul proved his innocence against liars who claimed that Paul was teaching Jews not to keep the laws of Moses and that he was speaking against Jerusalem.


Paul was in Judaism, and you are in a different religion?


Those liars who told the lie that got Stephen killed, they said Stephen was going around teaching Jews not to keep the laws of Moses, these liars had to be paid because they were liars. Stephen never taught Jews not to keep the laws of Moses, Paul never taught Jews not to keep the laws of Moses.




I am quite CONFIDENT that you will not admit the truth of what Jesus says, or the truth of what Acts 21 says, and you will continue to go on as if Christianity was not a sect of Judaism.


But here is Acts 21 AGAIN.




Is Paul a two faced lying coward who says one thing and lies to save his life in the midst of ten thousand Jewish believers who were all zealous of the law? Now Paul comes amongst them and PRETENDS he still loves the law?


Paul's Arrival at Jerusalem
17And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 23Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 24Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 25As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 26Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.


Paul Seized in the Temple


27And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him, 28Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place:



PORQUE 77


How do you read Acts 21?

You pretend you didn't read it?



When Jesus says something, you just act as if you didn't hear it or that it doesn't exist?

How could you possibly read Acts 21 and then act as if I am supposed to take you serious?

How do you defy the words of Christ and expect me to take you serious?

You think the law is all about running around killing people?
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